153 Comments:
It only bothers me if I have tons of shit I'm carrying in my backpack and in my arms as well, and nobody gets up so I have to balance and keep my groceries from tripping other passengers in the aisle of the new cramped/green 17 during rush hour. Like, really? None of you could get off your asses and do something nice? It's like holding open a door for someone.
Elderly, disabled people, pregnant women.
That's the only expectation I have.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 12:53 AM on May 13
I would add young (toddlers) children to the above as well. They can have just as much balance problems as elderly and disabled, and I wouldn't expect a parent to deal with any packages, keep their child safe and under control, AND keep their own balance.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 1:08 AM on May 14
I agree with Bixby, but if someone is taking up a seat with their backpack/groceries/etc, i will ask them to move it so I can sit down.
»» Submitted by »»» ceci at 2:25 AM on May 14
That reminds me. I hate the people who sit in the aisle seat and leave the window seat open and don't move over for you to sit down. Or people on the aisle seat who rotate slightly for you to squeeze past. I swear I read a post or comment on Bus Tales about this before.
I only move for people with a physical inability to stand or kids, because it's safer for kids to sit.
»» Submitted by kevin at 6:16 AM on May 14
When I see someone who definitely should be given a seat, I do admit I check to see if a nearby guy is going to stand up. So far, one always has. But I'm prepared to stand myself.
I kind of like standing on the bus, actually. Improves balance.
»» Submitted by »»» jane at 6:57 AM on May 14
All very legitimate. And I follow the same rules, but this took me by surprise. Neither Ms. Bus Manners nor the woman standing next to me had anything more than a purse. She wanted me to give that woman my seat solely on the basis of gender.
After the incident, I thought maybe she just didn't want to sit next to a guy. The woman looked very exurbanish/Ann Coulter and so perhaps she didn't "believe" in such things.
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 7:00 AM on May 14
People like yourself, aaron, who do not have a obvious disability (like being in a wheelchair) are sometimes placed in awkward moments like that. I have heard of people with bone fide disabilities (but without a chair, walker or cane) being screamed at by ablebodies who feel they are "handicaped parking cheats." I didn't get a temporary handicapped permit for my car after my surgery, but for the first week or two, I sure wished I had.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 7:03 AM on May 14
Don't you know? Women are weak and expected to be coddled at every opportunity. Like giving them your seat or voting for them in a national presidential primary.
Sarcasm aside - this woman is a hypocrite. Plain and simple. If a person is elderly (regardless of gender), blind, or have a child with them (again regardless of gender) I will be happy to give up my seat. But someone who is quite able who didn't get on the bus soon enough - let them stand. I will continue sitting plugged into my ipod and reading my book and not care.
Also - what bus at 6am is full enough for someone having to stand?
»» Submitted by regexp at 7:17 AM on May 14
Personally, I believe there is a courtesy gradient as you move from the front of the bus to the back. If you couldn't get anyone to care about you up front, or you passed on open seats, you sure aren't going to find any sympathy past the back door.
»» Submitted by »»» champs at 7:59 AM on May 14
This is why I always sit in the back part of the bus. People are always too uncomfortable to take seats where they have to sit next to -- gasp -- TWO people, so most will just stand, even when the bus is full. This way I feel guilt-free about not getting up for people, since they're too dumb to choose to sit down in the first place.
»» Submitted by »»» jacapro at 8:17 AM on May 14
I didn't get a temporary handicapped permit for my car after my surgery, but for the first week or two, I sure wished I had.
That's ok, bob. It would have taken you three weeks to get it.
»» Submitted by mazasa at 8:18 AM on May 14
I like the idea of a courtesy gradient.
I'm not going to automatically give up my seat for a blind person. They are just as capable of anyone to stand and hold onto an overhead rail. Plus, the blind should always be given the sideways seats in the front of the bus anyway.
»» Submitted by kevin aka negative nelly at 8:22 AM on May 14
Personally, I think this particular woman was just looking for something to bitch about. As for chivalry, meh, I think it's kind of weird and awkward when a guy opens the door for me, so I certainly wouldn't expect one to give up his seat.
I learned last fall that people very seldom move for pregnant women. The worst is the light rail. I was coming back from the airport 6 mos pregnant and with a roll on and computer bag, and the entire train was already full from the mall because of a twins game. Not only would no one let me have a seat, most of them totally avoided my eyes when I looked at them. i finally a guy on the seat closest to the door if he would mind letting me have his seat, and he said he coudn't because he was sitting with his family. Like it would have killed him to put the 5 year old in his lap and scoot over.
»» Submitted by »»» rew at 8:35 AM on May 14
What makes blackberry users think they get extra room for their elbows while typing?
»» Submitted by --- at 8:36 AM on May 14
If I get up to give my seat to someone else, I certainly wouldn't yell at anybody else for not doing it first, sheesh.
When I broke my foot and had crutches or a cast, I couldn't drive, and folks on the bus were very kind. But I noticed that when I was just limping and walking slowly, people treated me as if I were "a little slow."
»» Submitted by Joanna at 8:44 AM on May 14
so this lady is trying to say that being a woman is a disability?
way to set feminism back a few dozen years.
»» Submitted by wayno at 8:48 AM on May 14
I've seen elderly people with walkers/canes/slowness get on the bus and nobody moved. The driver has to ask people to move. I had one let everyone know she wasn't going anywhere until the lady got a seat.
Then again, I have a friend with cerebal palsey. She walks without a cane/walker/etc, but she has very little balance. Because the cheap bus pass she gets through work, she doesn't do the mobility price. So no one knows she has a disability and no one will move for her. They also expect her to move. What is a girl to do?
Finally, for me to move, you need to be very pregnant, not just a little. But I always move for mom's with small kids. Being 4 months pregnant is getting me to move though. That is not a disability.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 8:51 AM on May 14
Oh, and to the crazy lady on the bus. If you want to be treated equal in the workforce and society, you need to be treated equal on the bus.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 8:52 AM on May 14
and first comment of mine, mom's = moms.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 8:52 AM on May 14
I suggest all male bus riders begin asking all female bus riders if they are pregnant. This will be even more uproarious if they are holding grocery bags.
»» Submitted by David Pearson at 9:06 AM on May 14
I rode the bus on crutches for 2 months. Never had a guy offer his seat. Most days I had to stand. I got to understading how people like the Unabomber get so pissed at society they want to blow shit up.
When I wear a suit, guys always offer me seats. It's weird. A lot of the El Salvadoran guys who ride my bus will offer their seats to women, and I think it's sweet. But I would never expect it.
»» Submitted by yepnope at 9:12 AM on May 14
As a woman I'd like to state for the record that chivalry annoys me. If a man tried to give up his seat for me on the bus I'd politely turn it down. I don't require coddling as I'm perfectly capable of doing things for myself.
»» Submitted by RMJ at 9:20 AM on May 14
What really got me was not even the crazy yelling lady, but the woman for which she was advocating. She sat down and discussed her support for such measures.
Both are over 35 years old, BTW, but under 50. They should know better.
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 9:22 AM on May 14
were they wearing power suits? did they have perms?
»» Submitted by wayno at 9:31 AM on May 14
Gee, thanks Wayne. Now I have Let The River Run stuck in my head...
»» Submitted by yepnope at 9:34 AM on May 14
As a woman I'd like to state for the record that chivalry annoys me.
Simple human kindness, gestures that knitted society together are unraveling one by one.
We're becoming Minnesota Ice.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:36 AM on May 14
Someday I'm going to try this. (video)
»» Submitted by kevin at 9:50 AM on May 14
Yeah that will go over well. Your results would probably be better if you did do it in French though.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 9:54 AM on May 14
also, lulz at this
try riding an express train in new york at rush hour.
even if you're disabled, you don't need a seat because you can't fall down. you're pressed between so many people that it's impossible.
I've heard the tube is worse, but I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing that yet.
»» Submitted by wayno at 9:54 AM on May 14
Bus Uncle
This guy became a celebrity in Hong Kong. Wall Street Journal did a story on him.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:59 AM on May 14
Handicapped people = I'd give up my seat
Old people = I'd give up my seat
Parents with young kids = I'd give up my seat
People struggling with packages = I'd give up my seat
Pregnant ladies = Case-by-case scenario.
Un-pregnant, un-old, un-handicapped, un-burdened ladies sans young kids = Hell no.
»» Submitted by mike s at 10:01 AM on May 14
b-b-but ... isn't an overactive sense of entitlement a disability?
»» Submitted by wayno at 10:05 AM on May 14
Wayne, I would give you my seat if only to irritate the un-pregnant, un-old, un-handicapped, un-burdened ladies sans young kids. It would be a learning experience for them.
And by doing that, we would all be fighting patriarchal hegemony.
»» Submitted by mike s at 10:10 AM on May 14
In situations like this, just ask yourself... What Would Obama Do?
»» Submitted by bartbrett at 10:16 AM on May 14
I think all bets are off in the Downtown Zone.
I'm not sure why we even have a DT zone rate for local buses that extend beyond DT. Nothing irritates me more than someone in a wheel chair getting onto the bus to take it 1 block on Nicollet Mall.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 10:20 AM on May 14
I hear he makes women faint. That would lead to Bus Pandemonium.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:21 AM on May 14
hi "BADGERY THING"
»» Submitted by Greg at 10:21 AM on May 14
Well the new lower buses, I think they call them kneeling buses don't have that slow lift, so it should be smoother/faster in the future.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 10:22 AM on May 14
don't you sass the DTZ!
I live at the very edge of it (which extends across the river, hurrah!) and it saves me a lot of money when I do need to ride the bus downtown for something (like a shopping trip to target for necessities that are too big to bike home with ... or a drunken trip down to first ave)
»» Submitted by wayno at 10:22 AM on May 14
The DTZ just irritates me because after riding for 20 minutes and paying full fare some bozo hops on for $0.50 to ride across the river and wants to sit in the seat next to me making me move all my shit so they can ride for 5 blocks.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 10:27 AM on May 14
don't put your shit in the seat in the first place
sometimes we bozos need to get downtown.
»» Submitted by wayno at 10:29 AM on May 14
In situations like this, just ask yourself... What Would Obama Do?
I don't know, but if I were Hillary, I'd hire some dude wearing red boxing gloves to sit in the stands behind the lecturn, so they could be seen in every shot of me speaking.
That's my formula for victory!
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 10:30 AM on May 14
Met Council is debating raising bus fares today.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 10:31 AM on May 14
bus riders debating lynching pawlenty today
»» Submitted by wayno at 10:33 AM on May 14
also if they're going to raise fares, they should consider taking a bigger chunk from suburban commuters who are typically wealthier and whose long routes are probably more expensive to run anyway. Because $2 to get from my hood to uptown and $2 to get from Plymouth to downtown are not at all the same thing. (Yes, there are limited stop non-express buses that go to far-flung suburbs and cost the same as regular city bus routes)
»» Submitted by wayno at 10:37 AM on May 14
they should consider taking a bigger chunk from suburban commuters who are typically wealthier
If that can be tagged to income, what else? Should people who make more money have to pay more for groceries? Gas?
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:39 AM on May 14
I would never expect a man I don't know to give up his bus seat to me, open a door for me, etc., but I certainly appreciate it when it happens. I love gentlemanly men who still have the notion of chivalry and I like being treated like a lady.
»» Submitted by »»» tara_r at 10:43 AM on May 14
not because of their income per se, but they can certainly better afford it. Also, like I said, a 20+ mile route is not on par with just travelling within the city proper. This isn't NYC where you can justify a one-fare system because of how pervasive it is. With all the new fare technology they consider zoned fares.
»» Submitted by wayno at 10:46 AM on May 14
they should consider taking a bigger chunk from suburban commuters who are typically wealthier
Yeah, request their tax returns upon boarding to determine the fare. Please. If they really want to make the system equitable they could institute distance based fares like they do in Japan. You ride longer, you pay more. Simple and fair.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 10:46 AM on May 14
Wayne, I lived in Champlin with my parents because I was poor and took the bus in everyday.
While I agree that people in suburbs TEND to be wealthier, it isn't alway the case. Plus, most of the far flung suburbs are only serviced by the express buses, which are already $2.75 each way. While the 18 goes to Bloomington, I think having to be on the 18 for over an hour is extra payment enough for those who ride it.
And, a lot of the people in good jobs get discounted bus passes, so it doesn't matter if they live in Maple Grove or Minneapolis, they will pay the same amount for the MetroPass.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 10:49 AM on May 14
Distance based fares would do away our transfer program here. Part of the reason our fares are higher than other places is due to the unlimited transfer for 2 1/2 hours policy. One fare and you can go to the library, target and the grocery store, even if they are on different buslines.
Though, doing away with it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Nothing pisses me off more than someone who tries to pay with a day old transfer or who has 10 transfers on them and doesn't know which one is good.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 10:53 AM on May 14
Pawlenty may be responsible for many things, wayne, but he isn't responsible for $4.40 a gallon diesel. Using the B20 blend dosen't help bring down the price much right now, either.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 10:55 AM on May 14
Historical data on price of B20 vs. regular diesel.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 10:58 AM on May 14
Wayne:
The Screamer was wearing mom jeans and a black long-sleeved shirt and the Receiver of the Advocacy was dressed in middle-aged woman business clothes (but not a suit or anything - think business casual for those who are a block away from menopause but without the style to hide it).
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 11:08 AM on May 14
While I agree with your zone-fare system, Wayne, it seems to me that comparing all suburbs as being equal in terms of wealth is pretty far off. I mean, no offense to say Blaine, but do they have the wealth that Wayzata does?
»» Submitted by »»» jtd at 11:08 AM on May 14
Ditto on BC or Richfield, JTD.
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 11:14 AM on May 14
sure, underfunding a valid transportation alternative isn't his fault, he can't be arsed to raise taxes for anything. just because he didn't cut funding, he's a good guy? despite, oh I don't know, big upticks in ridership ....? keep funding roughly the same while costs and ridership rise, good one. Definitely nothing he could do there!
I do appreciate the 2 1/2 hour transfer, but honestly maybe it's not the best way to structure fares if they need more money. Does anyone know if those corporate discounted passes are discounted because the company pays for the difference or does MT actually eat it? If it's the latter case, that needs to go away. People with good enough jobs will still probably ride the bus if they have to pay the full price of the pass.
Anyway I think distance-based zoned fares wouldn't completely destroy the system. Express buses are already sort of a version of that where you pay getting off. Perhaps everyone could pay the base fare getting on and get a transfer/ticket, which would then, like with express routes, be required to be swiped again on the way out and any additional distance-based fared could be payed then--obviously only when it's gone beyond a certain range into another fare zone. There's no need to go through that hassle closer-in where there'd be no extra charge.
Anyway, the point is, with a sprawly metro area like this it makes no sense why they don't try distance-based pricing. Suburbanites have been spoiled by their cushy flexy commuter buses and cheap fares. Sure, some might turn back to their cars if the cost of their bus ride goes up, but they'll just be stuck back in traffic and have to think whether or not it's worth the tiny amount extra they'd pay for the bus. Maybe they'd even rethink living on the urban fringe if they suddenly have to actually face some of the real consequences. Or maybe rally for commuter rail to the fringes and let us have better transit in the urbanized areas? That would be good too.
Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?
»» Submitted by wayno at 11:18 AM on May 14
they always hike the fares to drop ridership
»» Submitted by »»» rew at 11:32 AM on May 14
also point taken on relative wealth of suburbs, but notice how most of the poorer ones are first-ring?
typically better off people live further and further away, yet get to pay the same low bus fare for their trip. fuck that!
anyway I consider a lot of first ring burbs to just be extensions of the city anyway. Not GV, that place sucks. Tax haven corporate fellating piece of shit town that can't even complete bike trails (and has the only gap in a trail that goes like 50 or 60 miles out to god knows where). But like richfield? BC? Shit, may as well be neighbourhoods of Minneapolis.
»» Submitted by wayno at 11:32 AM on May 14
Does anyone know if those corporate discounted passes are discounted because the company pays for the difference or does MT actually eat it?
There is a price that MT offers, I'm not sure what it is, and then the companies discount it often. The pass is the same if you take a express bus four times a day or a local bus on off peak hours twice a week. So, I'm sure they figure that into their equations. So, I can ride anywhere, as much as I want, for $25 a month. Sweetest deal ever. Except cjc's, he gets to ride for free always.
If I had to pay for my bus fare each day, it would be $5.50 round trip. I can park in DT st. paul for $4.50 a day, or just outside for free. I think if they raise the price of the express fares, people are going to do the CBA and it will come up as driving is cheaper.
I think another part of the distance based fare structure that would cause problems is the complexity. We already have a fare structure people can't figure out. If you add in distance it will be beyond most people. While it is super easy to do on a Subway, it is not so easy on a pay up front bus.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 11:34 AM on May 14
Wayno's blanket statements about the wealth of the suburbs versus the city make me giggle. Ride your bike around the lakes and see the "poverty". Visit South Minneapolis where houses go for 500k-plus. I live right next to townhomes that sell for less than 200k in Maple Grove, KC!'s point about Champlin is right on.
And, a lot of the people in good jobs get discounted bus passes, so it doesn't matter if they live in Maple Grove or Minneapolis, they will pay the same amount for the MetroPass.
Not to whine too much but does it bother me that I have to pay the same rate for my Metro pass as a co-worker that takes an express from Eden Prairie. Especially because they get to work faster than I do from NE Mpls.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 11:45 AM on May 14
they should consider taking a bigger chunk from suburban commuters who are typically wealthier
Yes, raise the fares on those that commute and then they'll just climb back into their giant SUV's.
»» Submitted by Some Guy at 11:50 AM on May 14
I would add young (toddlers) children to the above as well. They can have just as much balance problems as elderly and disabled, and I wouldn't expect a parent to deal with any packages, keep their child safe and under control, AND keep their own balance.
Wait, give the toddler a seat or give the parent with a toddler a seat? Because I might do the latter but there's no way I'm doing the former. Parents can put their kids on their lap.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 11:53 AM on May 14
You are right Bixby. That's another thing that pisses me off. When a child, who can sit on a parent's lap, gets a whole seat on a crowded bus. Especially when that child is not sitting with the mom, but in a totally different seat.
Another thing that pisses me off, when parents think it is cute for their 2-3 year old to get on and off the bus by themselves, especially during rush hour. Pick the damn kid up and move, we are (most likely) already late.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 11:56 AM on May 14
thoughts from a gray-haired, white, middle-aged woman with (not obvious) mobility issues
*The 16 bus is almost always packed with standees, to the point that it takes forever to get off. on this route I have found it's young Black and Asian males who give me their seats without my asking (I DON'T ask unless it is too painful to stand) they're very polite.
*the 21 is always full, sometimes with standees during rush hour. no eye contact with anyone
*the university and selby-lake express buses are always jam-packed during rush hour.
I'm with many of you on the issues of who should and should not stand, and why kids should sit on laps and why kids should be controlled. we had a driver on the 21 the other day who wouldn't get going until this idiot woman hung up her damned cell phone and got control of her kid.
as for able-bodied women whining about men sitting, tell 'em to shut up, suck it up and be thankful they can still stand for any length of time.
I'm with tara_r on this one.
I certainly do not expect men to show chivalry, which is ladylike.
When they do, I accept it graciously, which is ladylike.
I also try as best I can to pay the gesture forward, like offering my seat to someone else when I can, which is ladylike.
Being ladylike is just being a nice person. Being ladylike is not some simpering affliction that merits so much hand-wringing, bloated discussion.
There are fewer and fewer opportunities to be ladylike these days, so I relish them when they come along.
It's tragic that feminism heaped so much WEIGHT on such a simple thing as a gesture of courtesy, which is what chivalry basically is. I feel badly for women who interpret chivalry as some grand offense that dredges up such unnecessary loads of "issues." Lighten up. Saying thank you and sitting down gratefully does not mean you are some weakling. It means you are a well-socialized human being who is capable of accepting courtesy, and moving on.
This is one topic that really separates the girls from the women, if you know what I mean.
»» Submitted by Bx at 12:20 PM on May 14
they should consider taking a bigger chunk from suburban commuters who are typically wealthier
That's ridiculous. Should males pay more than females then? Minorities less than whites?
How about if you can prove you are actually taking the bus to work, you pay less. If you are going to block E to hang out, you pay more.
and giving up seats to women? I would think many women might take offense to that.
»» Submitted by rider15 at 12:30 PM on May 14
Now where did I put that "irony" tag...
»» Submitted by mb@work at 12:31 PM on May 14
How about if you can prove you are actually taking the bus to work, you pay less. If you are going to block E to hang out, you pay more.
I think you're already paying enough when you find yourself going to Block E to hang out.
Also, I have no idea how that could pragmatically work.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 12:36 PM on May 14
Should males pay more than females then?
Do they still have ladies nights at the bars, or is that illegal?
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 12:42 PM on May 14
Actually, I recall ladies nights being illegal. A lot of bars changed it to dress night, figuring if a guy showed up in a dress, he probably deserved a cheaper drink.
ok let's all harp on one errant comment and ignore the valid arguments for a distance-based fare structure. It costs you more to drive your car further, why shouldn't it cost you more to ride the bus further?
also:
Not to whine too much but does it bother me that I have to pay the same rate for my Metro pass as a co-worker that takes an express from Eden Prairie. Especially because they get to work faster than I do from NE Mpls.
DING DING DING! This is exactly what I'm talking about. Why do they get better service from further away for the same price? Screw that! Urban residents are typically more dependent on transit and don't have as many options as suburban commuters, yet continually get the short end of the stick the way metro transit operates service.
»» Submitted by wayno at 12:44 PM on May 14
Kind of glad they made that illegal, or at least passe, as I am sure some bad judgements were made. Mistakes were made.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 12:46 PM on May 14
Urban residents are typically more dependent on transit and don't have as many options as suburban commuters,
please elaborate.
»» Submitted by cubbie at 12:50 PM on May 14
DING DING DING! This is exactly what I'm talking about. Why do they get better service from further away for the same price? Screw that! Urban residents are typically more dependent on transit and don't have as many options as suburban commuters, yet continually get the short end of the stick the way metro transit operates service.
Could you please theorize how this might work in practice?
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 12:50 PM on May 14
Urban residents are typically more dependent on transit and don't have as many options as suburban commuters,
options=cars.
Explain how it would work Wayne. I see your point but I don't see the practicality.
A touch screen where each rider selects his/her route?
A clipboard that is passed around? In 7 different languages?
You guys are upset about the three seconds it takes for a toddler to get on to the bus....
»» Submitted by Roy Walsh at 12:53 PM on May 14
Urban communities gave up entire neighborhoods to allow easy access for suburbanites, so why should that paradigm change. But seriously, hating on the suburbs is pointless, because the city center and the suburbs are economically symbiotic. You make it difficult for people to get to the city center to work, then you get high office vacancy rates and falling property tax revenues in the core.
Ex-urbia is where the real problem is. It is just too far out to be sustainable. It has been posited that those locations will be the next slums. But I have also seen models where relative affluence will look like a target: concentric rings of rich followed by poor. I guess that would bring some economic diversity back to American cities eventually.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 12:55 PM on May 14
The #5 is slow and seems to stop at every friggin' corner. It probably burns as much fuel as an express from Eden Prairie.
»» Submitted by »»» jtd at 12:58 PM on May 14
You guys are upset about the three seconds it takes for a toddler to get on to the bus....
If it took three seconds I wouldn't bitch. 30 seconds is what I'm bithching about. And I'm a girl.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 12:58 PM on May 14
Ditto the 21, stops at every damn corner. Spread those stops out or get an elevated busway or something.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 1:00 PM on May 14
I already posited an idea above on how a zoned fare system could work (probably largely with existing technology). people used to riding express buses are used to paying as they get off. you just make sure they dip their card/transfer both getting on and off and you can have the system recognize travel across zones and know when more payment is due.
»» Submitted by waynophone at 1:00 PM on May 14
I also completely agree that they need to eliminate a lot of redundant stops. I have so many ideas to improve transit service around here.
»» Submitted by waynophone at 1:05 PM on May 14
The #5 is slow and seems to stop at every friggin' corner. It probably burns as much fuel as an express from Eden Prairie.
The #17 is the same.
Chee, I thought the title of this post was about CHIVALRY on the BUS, not all this claptrap BULLSHIT about fare systems and suburban sprawl.
C'mon, folks, stick to topic. It was interesting.
»» Submitted by Selmer at 1:06 PM on May 14
DING DING DING! This is exactly what I'm talking about. Why do they get better service from further away for the same price? Screw that! Urban residents are typically more dependent on transit and don't have as many options as suburban commuters, yet continually get the short end of the stick the way metro transit operates service.
How about this screw bus service to the burbs many of us could careless and would welcome bus service to be stopped. As Gas goes up those that can't afford to drive anymore will move back to the city and buy up all of the foreclosed houses. Seems like a solution to me. Didn't Rogers or Elk river vote against direct bus service?
Wayno, don't worry to much about sprawl anymore, no one is buying, moving or building.
»» Submitted by swandog at 1:07 PM on May 14
Ex-urbia is where the real problem is. It is just too far out to be sustainable. It has been posited that those locations will be the next slums. But I have also seen models where relative affluence will look like a target: concentric rings of rich followed by poor. I guess that would bring some economic diversity back to American cities eventually
How is this different from any other model. People will always segregate themselves. When governmental bodies start messing with the social strata people just move. The price of gas will limit the distance of the ex-surbs. what you miss is that a large amount of commuting is not into the city but is burb to burb.
»» Submitted by swandog at 1:17 PM on May 14
Yeah, I thought the OP was asking for LADIES' input on the chivalry issue first, not for you penis'd BOZOS arguing about social infrastructure as it relates to BULLSHIT, or whatever you've reduced this thread to JAWING about.
»» Submitted by Bx at 1:27 PM on May 14
And the irony tag comes full circle.
Oh, is this the first thread that ever got off-topic?
»» Submitted by »»» jtd at 1:33 PM on May 14
You know, you might want to actually read the original post before you start shrieking, Bx:
What's the ladies' (and guys') take on this? Are men supposed to let women have their seats?
...
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 1:33 PM on May 14
I think we've exhausted the original topic and it's fine that we're moving on to a tangentially related topic about buses and transportation. It's fine. If anyone has anything to add on the original topic they can still add it and it will more that likely be responded to if it isn't redundant. This zoning/pricing chat is interesting.
In the words of the great Tim Gunn:
Carry on.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 1:36 PM on May 14
Yeah, I thought the OP was asking for LADIES' input on the chivalry issue first, not for you penis'd BOZOS arguing about social infrastructure as it relates to BULLSHIT, or whatever you've reduced this thread to JAWING about.
You might want to actually read my post before you shriek back, Max.
I said the OP was asking for the ladies' input FIRST. As in, the guys' SECOND. On CHIVALRY on the bus. NOT on all this mumbo jumbo about fare structures.
»» Submitted by Bx at 1:37 PM on May 14
Oh, my bad. Your unladylike shrieking about penises was entirely justified.
And you prove my original point of opportunities to be ladylike becoming fewer and fewer, thanks to the aforementioned penis'd bozos.
And I respectfully disagree that this zoning/pricing chat is interesting. Arguing about the thread getting off topic is WAY more interesting than the snoozefest of white guys "discussing" fare zones. Discussing almost anything would be, especially the original topic.
»» Submitted by Bx at 1:43 PM on May 14
And you prove my original point of opportunities to be ladylike becoming fewer and fewer, thanks to the aforementioned penis'd bozos.
I don't understand. Are you saying that women behaving like ladies is contingent on men behaving like gentlemen? It seems to me the definition of gentlemanly or ladylike behavior is that you do it regardless of the circumstances.
thanks to the aforementioned penis'd bozos
It's a shame honor duels are out of style. That'd take care of a lot of bus chivalry, and this Bx sound like quite the guy.
»» Submitted by Some Guy at 1:49 PM on May 14
snoozefest of white guys "discussing" fare zones.
...
And I respectfully disagree that this zoning/pricing chat is interesting. Arguing about the thread getting off topic is WAY more interesting than the snoozefest of white guys "discussing" fare zones.
1. That's so...meta.
2. Is there anything more that you'd like to discuss about chivalry? Is there anything missing from the discussion that you think someone needs to address?
3. Is there a need for the thread to always be amusing/interesting to everyone reading it?
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 1:50 PM on May 14
agreed
agreed=max
I posted it to get opinions on the topic and also to see if anyone else has ever had an aggressive lecture on manners on the bus before.
2. Is there anything more that you'd like to discuss about chivalry? Is there anything missing from the discussion that you think someone needs to address?
I wish more guys would throw their top coats over puddles for me and stand up when I leave the dinner table to powder my nose.
I posted it to get opinions on the topic and also to see if anyone else has ever had an aggressive lecture on manners on the bus before.
But were you or were you not asking that the women exclusively comment first, and only when they are finished can the penises come out and comment?
I think chivalry is nice.
*scratches herself*
»» Submitted by »»» Ang at 1:59 PM on May 14
I posted it to get opinions on the topic and also to see if anyone else has ever had an aggressive lecture on manners on the bus before.
As in, you DIDN'T post it to spark a limp discussion about bus fare zones between the usual MNSpeak Gladiators. Right?
Hey, I'm just trying to advocate for your original post, it had so much potential for a good discussion about not-the-usual-MNSpeak-CRAP this stuff always seems to devolve into.
»» Submitted by Bx at 2:01 PM on May 14
For someone who never has a good word to say about this site or its commenters, and doesn't live in Minnesota, you sure come around a lot, Bx. Is it because we smell nice? Well, I smell nice.
»» Submitted by »»» Ang at 2:03 PM on May 14
I come for the conversation, but stay for the spin the bottle.
Besides bus manners, Bx, what should we be talking about that would get you all stim-u-lated and not sound so, ya know, "white"?
»» Submitted by »»» jtd at 2:05 PM on May 14
I'm not actually sure all of us are white. In fact, I'm sure we all aren't. But that shouldn't prevent people from presuming the gender and race of MnSpeak commentors.
I wish more guys would throw their top coats over puddles for me and stand up when I leave the dinner table to powder my nose.
I don't understand why guys no longer try to win my affection by donning armor and jousting. It's not that hard to find a horse in MN, people!
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 2:08 PM on May 14
Hey, I shot a big freaking pistol to impress you last night. That's got to count for something.
*Raises Hand* I'm not white, but I think I smell nice as well.
Since being yelled at by a bus driver (I wasn't paying attention and didn't push the door to open it fast enough - and really I wasn't standing there that long), I quit taking the bus. Total bus fear.
But, I ride the light rail a lot to make up for my bus fear and don't expect anyone to move because I'm female. But I try be aware if someone needs my seat more than I.
Does that make me carbon neutral?
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 2:10 PM on May 14
Hey, I shot a big freaking pistol to impress you last night. That's got to count for something.
Oh please, I live in North Minneapolis. There are plenty of guys courting me by shooting guns!
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 2:11 PM on May 14
Not to reintroduce a hostile topic, but with regards to zoning/pricing, Wayno...the generalization that people in the 'burbs are wealthier is grossly oversimplified. While the AVERAGE per capita income in some burbs may be higher, there are plenty of people struggling to make ends meet in my little home town of Minnetonka. There are plenty of people who take buses 'cause they can't afford cars.
So why should they pay more?
»» Submitted by KK at 2:13 PM on May 14
Hey, I shot a big freaking pistol to impress you last night. That's got to count for something.
Oh please, I live in North Minneapolis. There are plenty of guys courting me by shooting guns!
Good lord, that's one of the funniest exchanges for so many reasons.
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 2:17 PM on May 14
they should pay more because they live further away and take longer bus rides.
»» Submitted by waynophone at 2:19 PM on May 14
They don't? When I lived in Minnetonka, my bus ride was, like, thirty-five cents more expensive.
they should pay more because they live further away and take longer bus rides.
I'm not advocating this but would it be easier/cheaper to implement a toll for cars that is affected by distance or to implement a bus zoning system?
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 2:23 PM on May 14
max maybe some of the non MT operators have different fare structures but if it's a suburban route operated by MT the pricing is the same as far as I know.
but I'm also all for the idea of toll highways. esp. congestion pricing on downtown exits.
»» Submitted by waynophone at 2:29 PM on May 14
Wayne, I guess the issue of checking in when you get on and paying when you get off is that it would a)slow down the bus so much it would take two hours to get from DT to Lake on the 18 and b) you would have many more fare evaders and fare arguers. Why pay when you are already where you want to be?
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 3:11 PM on May 14
I guess you missed the part where routes that stay in the city don't need anything to happen getting off. within one zone would be exactly how it is now.
»» Submitted by waynophone at 3:31 PM on May 14
But almost none of the routes stay in the city. I can only think of a few major routes that do. The 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 14, 17, 18, and Hiawatha all leave the city. The 2, 3, 7, 8, 11, 16, 19, 21, all stay in the city, so I guess it is about half. Except the 16, 2, and 21 all go from one city to the other.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 4:00 PM on May 14
For someone who never has a good word to say about this site or its commenters, and doesn't live in Minnesota, you sure come around a lot, Bx.
What a keen observation, Ang. Is that an animal, vegetable or mineral?
As far as I know there is no residency verification function required to post on MNSpeak. Or is there?
»» Submitted by Bx at 4:04 PM on May 14
Now ladies, let's remember our manners.
»» Submitted by mb@work at 4:06 PM on May 14
obviously close-in first ring burbs would be a part of the same zone as the cities in such a system. some routes might need to be split into two or more to accomodate the far out branches of busy routes that run mostly in the cities too. it's definitely doable though.
»» Submitted by waynophone at 4:23 PM on May 14
I'm afraid to hold open the door for women, lest I get smacked down for opressing the progress that women have made in being able to open their own door. It's hard out here for a pimp.
I hold the door for anyone, man or woman. Holding the door is simply being polite, opening a door for a woman would be considered polite or chivalrous by some people's standards. I've never actually heard of women complaining about it. That's just a rumor started by some male chauvinist to make women look crazy.
»» Submitted by a. people at 4:48 PM on May 14
maybe women that don't want chivalry should have a red minus sign on their forehead's so we men know how we should treat them?
it would help a ton, sometimes my wife likes being treated like a lady and other times she's like "i can do it MYSELF!"
»» Submitted by confused_p*nis at 4:49 PM on May 14
Has anyone actually been yelled at for a kind gesture? Probably not I'd imagine. If they got any smoke it would be for condecension or perceived condecension accompanying said gesture.
Why does Bx assume whiteness? It is MN, but it is also the cities...
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 4:53 PM on May 14
Jason: You can usually tell who's going to bring all kinds of 5th circle of hell on your ass by the angry look. Or, if she's carrying a beat up copy of the Feminine Mystiqueshe's prolly still old school.
What we all should or shouldn't do is well, confusing. I would never expect a guy to automatically assume that he should move so I could sit, but I wouldn't be offended if he offered. When a guy holds the door open for me, my exhuberance is as much "Holy Shite, someone is being nice" as it is a "Gosh, you're so nice."
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 4:55 PM on May 14
As far as I know there is no residency verification function required to post on MNSpeak. Or is there?
Maybe but it would only include St. Paul and Mpls. the rest of us are just arrogant, angry white men that are rich and should pay more in taxes and live in the suburbs. Keep coming bx, your my only friend. If you don't mind were do you live. Not being from MN explains why you have some reality in you posts. Most people in this state have never left the Midwest and have moved to the big metropolis of the "twin cities". They tend to come from some small town and think that they are living the big city life. In reality most people that grew up in Mpls move.
»» Submitted by swandog at 4:59 PM on May 14
Why does Bx assume whiteness? It is MN, but it is also the cities...
Uh, well, it's definitely changed over the last 5ish years, but the cities is still pretty white.
Swandog: What up? Are you channeling Maz today?
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 5:07 PM on May 14
Most people in this state have never left the Midwest and have moved to the big metropolis of the "twin cities". They tend to come from some small town and think that they are living the big city life. In reality most people that grew up in Mpls move.
Actually Swandog, there are any number of transplants on here. And I know a ton of people who've lived in the area all their lives too.
»» Submitted by »»» richg at 5:12 PM on May 14
cities is = cities are
is it friday yet?
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 5:16 PM on May 14
As far as I know there is no residency verification function required to post on MNSpeak. Or is there?
Ah, yes, that is the point I was making. Nice deflection.
It's fine, though. It was more of a rhetorical question because it's pretty obvious why you stick around, despite hating everyone who frequents the site.
»» Submitted by »»» Ang at 5:21 PM on May 14
Dang, swandog, don't you ever get sick of your bitter self? You must be a real slice to live with.
»» Submitted by a. people at 5:23 PM on May 14
Maybe but it would only include St. Paul and Mpls. the rest of us are just arrogant, angry white men that are rich and should pay more in taxes and live in the suburbs. Keep coming bx, your my only friend. If you don't mind were do you live. Not being from MN explains why you have some reality in you posts. Most people in this state have never left the Midwest and have moved to the big metropolis of the "twin cities". They tend to come from some small town and think that they are living the big city life. In reality most people that grew up in Mpls move.
Swandog, you NAIL it. We "reality" junkies need to stick together. Someone's gotta be the voice(s) of reason in this MNSpeak Fairyland.
I was born and raised in the Twin Shitties. Now I split my time betwixt here and Somewheres Else. When I'm in town, I like to come here, watch the trainwreck and talk shit. It's relaxing, feeling like a superior jackass. We all have to blow off steam somehow, right?
»» Submitted by Bx at 6:16 PM on May 14
Max,
I think I did list the ladies first because the treatment of women was the uber issue at hand, but corroborating the opinions of both is divine.
I think it's interesting Bx that every comment you make in every thread inevitably leads to a discussion about you.
I hope your needs are being met.
Thanks, Raindog.
Glad you think that's interesting.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion about me.
*preens*
»» Submitted by Bx at 6:41 PM on May 14
I was taking the 781 out of downtown to Maple Grove after work one day, and a woman ended up standing next to me in the aisle. I immediately tapped her on the shoulder and offered my seat. IT OFFENDED HER!!! She adamantly refused. "CHIVALRY'S DEAD" she said. Why? I was baftfled. Try to do something nice...
»» Submitted by Chris - MG at 7:46 PM on May 14
Oh, leave Bx alone. This is her way of compensating for all her real and percieved inadequacies, such as her lack of social skills. All the attention feeds her self-importance and gives her a sort of validation.
That's my contribution to the discussion. Your welcome.
»» Submitted by a. people at 8:13 PM on May 14
When Bx *preens* it's Rx for Mn.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 8:23 PM on May 14
Yeah I offered my seat once to a lady and she said she was an independent woman and if she needed a seat she would ask for one. Ever since then I don't offer because she got me thinking..if you do need a seat then you will ask and I personally would oblige. I mean if you are asking me for the seat there must be a reason.
The reason i don't sit next to the window is because perhaps I am about to get off in a few stops. If you want the seat next to me just ask. I will move.
I ususally try to avoid all these issues by sitting in the back and next to the window.
»» Submitted by Luc Tuymans at 8:51 PM on May 14
Normally I just stand unless there are free seats. Most of the time when I offer, they just refuse.
By the way, the clock should be fixed, I mean, It said I was on mnspeak at 03:12am!
»» Submitted by »»» phoenix at 3:24 AM on May 15
oh, so did anyone see the schedule for meetings about bus fare hikes?
check this one out:
Public hearing schedule:
MONDAY, JULY 7:
5:30- 6:30 p.m.
Northtown Mall, Community Room 398 Northtown Dr., Blaine
TUESDAY, JULY 8:
6:30-7:30 p.m. Hopkins Center for the Arts 1111 Main Street, Hopkins
WEDNESDAY, JULY 9:
Noon -1 p.m. Minneapolis City Hall, Conference Room 333 350 S. 5th St., Minneapolis
5:30-6:30 p.m. Burnsville City Hall 100 Civic Center Pkwy., Burnsville
THURSDAY, JULY 10:
6:30-7:30 p.m. Maplewood Community Center 2100 White Bear Av., Maplewood
TUESDAY, JULY 15:
Noon-1 p.m. Metropolitan Council offices 390 N. Robert St., St. Paul
------------------------
uh, great. Glad everyone in the cities proper has to figure out a way to get downtown on their lunch hour while anyone in a suburb can do it after work. it's like they want to avoid having anyone with a job that isn't at target or wells fargo and lives in minneapolis and rides the bus from coming to their fucking meeting to complain. Good one.
»» Submitted by wayno at 9:53 AM on May 15
Some people are reaaly protective about their dignity. hey, is mrcheese here?
»» Submitted by JJ at 12:05 PM on May 15
I offer because I'm kind. By the way, Chris - MG, you wrote: I was baftfled. JJ, you wrote: are reaaly protective
This page has some of the worst spelling ever! And as for the grammar...
Sorry, I should stop this bl**dy madness.
Anyway, mrcheese sounds like one of those weird guys, like badgery thing.
»» Submitted by »»» phoenix at 12:27 PM on May 15
Thanks for the input. I think next time I will just sit in the back. Or if I see the woman again I'll just punch in her the face - give her a little of the ol' pre-Women's Lib male-female interaction.
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