68 Comments:
U of M Morris, actually. I met the guy about a month ago. Anyway, I have to wonder what the legal situation is around arbitrarily denying him admission to a movie.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 11:43 PM on March 20
Anyway, I have to wonder what the legal situation is around arbitrarily denying him admission to a movie.
As long as they're not discriminating against a protected trait, they can pretty much refuse admission to anyone they want. Even more so, this sounds like it was an advance screening or something of the sort arranged by the film's producers, not a general release showing.
In that case, it's really the producer's call, not the theater's. If I'm wrong, and this was simply a showing, just like if you were to pick a movie to go see at the multi-plex tomorrow night, I'd have serious doubts about patronizing AMC. Even if they do have half the CC screens in the metro.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 12:13 AM on March 20
Well, if there is anyone who enjoys butting heads with the God Squad, it's Prof. Meyers. I had a beer and chat with him a couple of years ago when he was visiting the Cities.
I hope he has forgiven me for referring to him as "squid boy" in a recent thread. Actually, I think he would like that nickname.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 6:46 AM on March 21
Meyers....Meyers....Meyers....Meyers
(couldn't resist)
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 7:03 AM on March 21
Remember when Ben Stein wasn't batshit crazy? His financial musings are the bestest.
So happy I'm leaving Quebec today!
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 7:09 AM on March 21
Yeah, I saw him on teevee doing a little opinion piece that made no sense at all! My wife turned to me and asked "what the heck happened to that guy?"
Perhaps being a conservative sucks all the funny out of you. Look at James Lilleks...
Kevin, it's not too late for you. Turn back, man, turn back!
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 7:17 AM on March 21
That is all kinds of awesome. I love how they didn't recognize his companion, of all people.
I'd say I'd boycott the theater over this, but it's such a crappy theater that I'd never go there anyway.
»» Submitted by Rez at 7:21 AM on March 21
I'm sure there are plenty of great Biology Professorships at Oral Roberts.
I have a feeling its tough to get a job as a biologist or geologist with a degree in Intelligent Design.
"I saw a 900 foot Jesus in Tulsa Oklahoma"
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 8:22 AM on March 21
If they can have economics professors at the U of M, they can have biology professors at Oral Roberts.
»» Submitted by Milt at 8:38 AM on March 21
For the record, it's PZ Myers (Not Meyers). It is also Pharyngula no Paryngula.
Do you want even more ironic? PZ is in the film... They turned away someone who actually appears in this epic!
Oral Roberts? Please, that's totally a tier-2 science-hating school.
Bob Jones University, all the way!
BJU!
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 8:39 AM on March 21
Myers is a petty, attention-seeking rube stuck in Hicktown Minnesota who suffers from big fish/small pond syndrome.
»» Submitted by Milt at 8:44 AM on March 21
Milt, how old is the earth? I just want to determine if you are a crank or a moron.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 8:45 AM on March 21
Someone named "Simpleton" is asking if I'm a moron.
»» Submitted by Milt at 8:47 AM on March 21
My name is ironic!
Earth age Please!
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 8:49 AM on March 21
Myers is a science professor at a small college who blogs about science on a site called "science blogs." I guess that's what attention-seeking rubes typically do -- get PhDs, go to small low-profile colleges, study cephalopods, and write on topics that are of little or no interest to most of the general public.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 8:52 AM on March 21
Might be an interesting little flick to see. Looks like it's a Michael Moore film, from the other side, except without the barely concealed rage.
Stein has a droll sense of humor. I would think Minnesotans would take to him.
There's probably a few chuckles in it. But this subject makes people so damned mad someone might spit on you while you're walking out of the theater.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 8:57 AM on March 21
"except without the barely concealed rage."
Yep. They don't bother to barely conceal it.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 9:01 AM on March 21
Also of interest, on the Expelled moive blog, they quote PZ:
"It's (explelled) going to appeal strongly to the religious, the paranoid, the conspiracy theorists, and the ignorant-- which means they're going to draw in about 90% of the American market."
Then they attribute it to "Athiest blogger and fabulist PZ Myers, on a film he has not yet seen."
If they let him see it, they would have to take that bit down. Clearly, they have a love hate relationship with PZ.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 9:07 AM on March 21
Doesn't every hidebound institution, liberal or conservative, need a cranky little guy like Stein to shove a thumb in its collective eye once in awhile to jar in out of complacency?
Clearly, they have a love hate relationship with PZ.
Could go the other way, too.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:17 AM on March 21
Stupid people hate anyone smarter than them in America.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 9:18 AM on March 21
This is so delightfully ironic. PZ is interviewed for a movie by trick (he was misinformed as to the premise of the movie when interviewed). They put footage of his interview in the movie, and he is prohibited from seeing the movie, which happens to purportedly be about exclusion of creationists from real science.
It to me very much smacks of when libraries ban Farenheit 451.
»» Submitted by Tuck at 9:20 AM on March 21
Doesn't every hidebound institution, liberal or conservative, need a cranky little guy like Stein to shove a thumb in its collective eye once in awhile to jar in out of complacency?
No. So many scientists must take time off of doing their scientific work to answer the ludicrous and fabricated BS that comes out of the noise machine. How much biology does Ben Stein know? His forte is political science. He clearly does not know one bit about current biology. However, biology professors and scientists have to take time to rebut every crazy with access to a mound of cash who can slap together a movie or a book.
These cranky guys are attempting to undermine science and science education in America and I guess that is okay for some people...
Raw. Exposed. Nerves.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:35 AM on March 21
"Doesn't every hidebound institution, liberal or conservative, need a cranky little guy like Stein to shove a thumb in its collective eye once in awhile to jar in out of complacency?"
I see you've bought into the central fallacy that there's some kind of institutional entity called "Big Science," and Stein as some kind of maverick battling it on behalf of truth and reason.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 9:37 AM on March 21
Not really.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:39 AM on March 21
It's funny that people will argue science needs nonsense or it becomes complacent, but not make similar arguments that, say, government needs an occasional deranged assassin, or big business needs an occasional pyramid scheme.
OK, Rat, so you haven't bought into the central fallacy that there's some kind of institutional entity called "Big Science," and Stein as some kind of maverick battling it on behalf of truth and reason, but you DO think that every hidebound institution, liberal or conservative, need a cranky little guy like Stein to shove a thumb in its collective eye once in awhile to jar in out of complacency.
Thanks for the clarity. Perhaps since you admit the movie is a fraud and that Stein is just a B-list celebrity who was paid to be in it, you can tell us exactly what complacent, hidebound institution does need Stein's thumb shoved in its face.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 9:45 AM on March 21
Get a grip, Max. It's just a little movie.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:45 AM on March 21
You really don't follow the news, do you, Rat? It's part of a concerted effort to inject religion into science.
you can tell us exactly what complacent, hidebound institution does need Stein's thumb shoved in its face.
Maybe not institutions, but hidebound, tenured figures in authority who have the power to destroy someone's career if they don't toe the mark.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:49 AM on March 21
Remember when Ben Stein wasn't batshit crazy?
Back when he was smoking the stick icky and doing Clear Eyes commercials.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 9:49 AM on March 21
Maybe not institutions, but hidebound, tenured figures in authority who have the power to destroy someone's career if they don't toe the mark.
Any specific examples of this happening?
Ya' gotta see the movie, Max
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:51 AM on March 21
2,000 years from now, we'll be dust, folks will think the world is 2,000 years old, that Oprah and Elvis Presley started humankind in the Garden of Eatin. big whoop.
»» Submitted by grote at 9:52 AM on March 21
Or you could provide some links and examples in this thread, rather than simply ape the movie's talking points.
Unless we're all operating under preconceived notions, isn't a bit premature to be debating the merits of a movie that no one here has even seen?
»» Submitted by huh? at 9:53 AM on March 21
"Maybe not institutions, but hidebound, tenured figures in authority who have the power to destroy someone's career if they don't toe the mark."
Put another way, you have to practice sound science to have a career in the sciences.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 9:55 AM on March 21
Probably right, huh.
But it's a clear sign of how divisive this subject is, and I don't know that it has to be.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:55 AM on March 21
A review of Expelled.
It's part of a concerted effort to inject religion into science.
Sounds sexy. Bring on the pyramid schemes and deranged government assassins and we have a better movie.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 9:56 AM on March 21
But it's a clear sign of how divisive this subject is, and I don't know that it has to be.
Well, let's say that you were an engineer, and were spending time and money building a bridge. Then someone comes along and says, wait, you don't need a strong base, or support beams, you can just build it on faith. And they complain that their faith-based approach to engineering is being oppressed. And they repeatedly take you to court over it. And they attempt to get faith-based engineering taught in the schools. And they pressure politicians to support faith-based engineering programs. And you are repeatedly called away from your job, which is to build bridges, to explain, for the millionth time, why you can't simply make a bridge float in the air by simply wanting it to.
I'm operating under well-informed preconceived notions.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 10:00 AM on March 21
Looks like Intelligent Design, smells like Revisionism.
»» Submitted by grote at 10:15 AM on March 21
Thanks max, douglas.
It doesn't need to be divisive because the people who are wrong and don't know what the hell they're talking about should just STFU.
»» Submitted by »»» jeffk at 10:32 AM on March 21
assuming that this movie ever makes it to a real theater for open audiences, PZ and I talked about a fundraiser where you can buy tickets to go see the movie with him. The more you spend on your ticket, the closer you get to sit to him and listen to him while the movie plays. Proceeds would go to the National Center for Science Education.
you know, if the movie ever actually makes it to a real release....
»» Submitted by »»» rew at 10:32 AM on March 21
Or you could provide some links and examples in this thread, rather than simply ape the movie's talking points.
Good job working in the evolutionary angle, Max.
»» Submitted by Tib at 10:47 AM on March 21
It doesn't need to be divisive because the people who are wrong and don't know what the hell they're talking about should just STFU.
The defense rests.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:52 AM on March 21
So your case is that people who don't know what they are talking about should be treated with the same amount of intellectual respect that we treat people who do know what they're talking about? Strange defense, Rat.
Max FTW
»» Submitted by »»» chuck at 11:06 AM on March 21
On the subject of respect, Max just commented with a ridiculous little bridge tale. Maybe you're exaggerating to make a point.
Whatever claim the ID people make can stand or fall on its merits.
I'm not afraid of that. The only thing that makes me queasy is the thought that I went to this because I thought it might actually be a little entertaining or amusing someone will spit on me when I walk out.
I'll STFU about this now, as I have lost interest.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 11:10 AM on March 21
max is the Clarence Darrow of MNSpeak.
»» Submitted by grote at 11:11 AM on March 21
The defense rests.
In the history of this debate, there has not been an articulate or well grounded defense to creationism. The few times when there has been an open and honest debate of the merits (see: The Dover Trial), creationism has failed miserably.
It fails for the same reason The Flying Spaghetti monster's theory of design fails- it lacks any evidence. The only way creationism can continue to exist as part of any meaningful discourse is through blatent dishonesty of its propenants, which is exactly what has happened throughout.
No I haven't seen the movie, but I have seen and read hundreds of other creationist screeds and whinings, and have never found a single instance of honest, scientific thought presented. Followers of this "debate" can predict well what Expelled contains.
»» Submitted by Tuck at 11:12 AM on March 21
Whatever claim the ID people make can stand or fall on its merits.
And it has fallen. Repeatedly. And yet we're still discussing, which suggests that something else is at play here.
And my story about the bridge is no more ridiculous than claiming that a valid scientific proposition is "God did it." That's faith, not science.
Max, didn't you know that in 2008, all opinions are created equally and should be respected, regardless of whether facts or reason back them up?
Rat, the point is that it has already fallen, but it won't go away, making it a nuisance.
»» Submitted by »»» jeffk at 11:13 AM on March 21
Like global warming?
»» Submitted by Milt at 11:15 AM on March 21
Only a fool doesn't understand the difference between global climate and local weather, Milt.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 11:24 AM on March 21
Yes, Milt, like global warming.
»» Submitted by Rez at 11:24 AM on March 21
I rest my case....
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 11:26 AM on March 21
In case it wasn't clear, I was mocking the people who are still trying to deny global warming.
»» Submitted by Rez at 11:29 AM on March 21
Whatever claim the ID people make can stand or fall on its merits.
And how much time are science teachers supposed to devote to this, rather than teaching the foundation of modern biology?
Maybe we should start devoting time to the flat earth theory again?
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 11:32 AM on March 21
Oh (face turns red)
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 11:33 AM on March 21
"I'm not afraid of that. The only thing that makes me queasy is the thought that I went to this because I thought it might actually be a little entertaining or amusing someone will spit on me when I walk out. "
Have you seen ANY evidence that people going to the movie are being spat at?
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 11:34 AM on March 21
Arguingin favor of the theory of intelligent design is like making a souflee without eggs.
»» Submitted by grote at 11:35 AM on March 21
Don't you mean without Cervici drippings and bacon?
»» Submitted by Crumbling Society at 12:10 PM on March 21
I rest my breasts...
»» Submitted by on the counter. at 2:04 PM on March 21
I wonder if Dawkins had a professional reason for visiting PZ Myers? Color me interested to know what that's about.
»» Submitted by »»» teucer at 6:07 PM on March 21
Dawkins was in town because he was speaking at the athiests convention. Presumably he was going to the movie with PZ because they are both in it.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 6:19 PM on March 21
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