- Filter by:
- All
High: 29° / Low: 13° — Dude Weather Subscribe to Secrets Minneapolis / St. Paul
MNSpeak: Talk
Thugs attack restaurant owner Thom Pham
Thom Pham, owner of Azia and Temple, was attacked by six to eight men outside Azia on Eat Street at 3:45 this morning.
262 Reader Comments
That's f'ed up.
Ugh. This is despicable.
That's terrible.
I hope they catch the bastards.
This is so obviously retaliation.
Retaliation for...? Do you mean the incident a few months back where Pham caught the couple who had dined 'n dashed at Temple trying it again at Azia? Or does he have a history of problems with gangs in the area?
I hope this is retaliation. If it is then hopefully it will make it easier to track down these idiots and put them behind bars. If it isn't then it is scary that this could happen to any random person.
I wish the punishment for this type of crime put these people in prison until they are too old to physical damage anything or anyone.
Do you mean the incident a few months back where Pham caught the couple who had dined 'n dashed at Temple trying it again at Azia?
Yes, that's my thinking.
I wish Thom a speedy recovery. This sort of stuff makes me sick.
It does seem like it must be something more than a random mugging.
It seems unusual that such a big group would be out prowling for victims at such an early hour. Makes it seem like they must have been looking for him particularly, either because somebody knew that he'd be carrying out a lot of money, or, as somebody else had suggested, in retaliation for something (although I'd doubt it would be the dine-and-dash incident).
Thinking the same thing, MunsingW.
this isn't far from the greenway, where people here were saying there's been lots of random beatings after dark- the "knock out kings" if memory serves.
My thinking is that the dine-and-dash incident got a fair amount of attention in the press -- and Thom was the one who directly confronted them. So this was retaliation.
Maybe i'm wrong.
Waiting around at 345am for him to leave? That's so lame to sit and plan it out... ugh.
Oh my god, how horrible!
He's lucky he wasn't killed. My cousin was hit with a 2x4 in a bar fight and was in a coma for months, suffered a stroke, and can no longer walk. I hope he'll be OK and that these fucksticks are found...
For real... his injuries sound really serious! Ugh!!!
I can't help but think that robbery is a likely motive...
Terrible that such things need to happen before people see the merits of the MPPA.
what an awful fucked up situation....I had this happen to a coworker in detroit, (but it was a prelude to a robbery with a lone attacker), so we instituted the following rules:
1) never leave alone
2) be armed, at a minimum, with pepper foam
3) move your car(s) into a highly visible spot early in the evening
4) have the nearest police precinct on speed dial on your cell phone and on the house phone
5) vary your departure routine
I don't get it Binky, you're saying the Minnesota Pork Producer's Association was behind the attack?
Surely the Minnesota Press Photographers Association couldn't have done much more than snap some photos!
Minnesota Personal Protection Act.
More commonly known as the Concealed Carry Act.
Do you know for a fact that Mr. Pham was not carrying a weapon? And do you know for a fact that he could have killed all of his attackers before they upped their retaliation.
I'm not sure Mr. Pham's terrible attack last night is the right platform for you to hijack with your one-note paranoid political viewpoints. Mr. Pham was perfectly capable taking care of himself. If you've ever taken any sort of self-defense, they will tell you that when you're up against more than a few people, even if armed, you're screwed.
What is happening to Minneapolis?
This is not any beating, this is a high profile beating, an attack on a vibrant business owner that should not be taken lightly, if it isn't handled correctly this can bring a lot of strife and fear to the area.
It will be a matter of time before this kind of behavior moves to uptown. North and South will mesh together into a web of deranged zombies walking at night beating up peaceful folks. You see it downtown; there is a LOT of gang graffiti all over uptown. I am sickened.
Everyone knows you don't bring a gun to a brick fight.
And to max's point, isn't T. Pham a Judo instructor?
I guess what I'm trying to say is the same thing that max just said... so I'm done.
I just finished talking with Thom for a story we're planning at 10pm. A couple oddities:
He was driving a car: It wasn't stolen.
He had a briefcase in his car with money: it wasn't touched.
This seemed (to him) to be a personal thing, people targeting him for some reason. He said they didn't say a word, though. No yelling, no anger. As if they were just going about a job they were hired to do.
Very strange. And to those who love to hear the race of the suspects: Thom said the first group of guys that went after him were likely white, the second group were light skinned-- but he couldn't tell if they were Asian, Hispanic or white.
this isn't a good example either for or against conceal/carry. there's no way of telling if his being armed would have prevented the attack or escalated it.
God. Thanks for the update, Jason. How is he doing?
When is Minneapolis going to get with the program and start locking people up who are in gangs (their were 8 of them). They should be tried as terrorists. The "safe" parts of the city are not safe anymore.
Zombie grafitti!? I'm never leaving my house again.
hired job? minneapolis mob?
He looked pretty good (although groggy from the painkillers). He's got some swelling and a bruise under his right eye (from the brick dropped on his face), and he said his head hurt from being whacked with a stick.
Thanks Jason. It's good to have you around to fill in the blanks for us. It did seem personal somehow which has to be very scary for TP.
Wait, did you say TP was in a car and it wasn't stolen?
I don't get it.
I got beaten up by a group of about 10 people once. They all went after my head, which turned out to be fortunate, as you're head can take a lot of beating. My only injury was from my wrist, when I fell to the ground. I may have had a black eye as well.
Man, do I mis LA.
he was driving?
fuhhhhhh
Jason, please clarify. Did Tom Pham describe them as, "As if they were just going about a job they were hired to do."...or was that you editorializing?
I believe Thom also owns one of my favorite restaurants....Thanh Do in St. Louis Park.
This is unbelievably sick. Hopefully they'll thrown the book at these a-holes when they catch them. And I have a feeling they will catch them.
We already know the two dingleberries he busted previously weren't the brightest couple haven't gone to two restaurants owned by the same person.
They're also likely dumb enough to realize they'd be the prime suspects in a beating where they left cash and a 80K car with the keys in it. It will be interesting to see where this leads. Speedy recovery to Thom.
Yes, he owns Thanh Do too. Poor guy. What a mess.
this isn't a good example either for or against conceal/carry. there's no way of telling if his being armed would have prevented the attack or escalated it.
You're right, to a point... nothing can beat a level head and situational awareness. To constantly be aware of all your surroundings is key.
As for the attack, it may have leveled the field, too; it may have given the attackers second thoughts about their target (or their job, if it was a "for hire" situation), or it may have reduced the number of attackers to be dealt with in other ways.
TP left Temple, drove to Azia. Parked in the lot next to Anemone. Got out of car, got jumped, and whacked with a stick. Tried to make a run for it... blocked in my another van with a 2nd group of people. Running, trying to evade 6-8 people. Gets tackled. Dude goes to hit him with a brick, TP grabs his arm, slows it, so he doesn't get slammed with brick, it just drops on his head.
Then someone drives by Nicollet, slows down after seeing the craziness, and the men scatter.
TP said he thought it odd that if these people had a personal beef with him, that they wouldn't say anything. He said he has no idea of motiviation, but he did speculate that they may have been hired. (Although he said the guys who dined and dashed prob. wouldn't have money to hire someone- so he doubts it's them).
"What is happening to Minneapolis?"
Uh, nothing, really. It's been this way for some time. I'm not seeing why this is worse or more meaningful because it was against "a vibrant business owner" - unless you simply mean because it'll get more publicity and make the city look bad? At least steps get taken in response to the city's image being bashed - so maybe this will have results that are ultimately good. (Not that I'd call this guy getting beat on a "good", by any means.)
did anyone get the van plates? like the person driving by?
everyone should book a table at Azia this weekend as a show of support. I highly recommend the cedar plank smoked salmon.
Any thinking person knows EXACTLY what is happening to this town.
Lawless progeny of the welfare programs that were so generously handed out in the 80's are now home to roost.
Even Tony Bouza knows it.
And yet we elect the boy mayor who will not let the police do their job.
Bud, you've mistaken the gurgling of a burst artery in your gray matter for thinking.
buuuuuddddddd, stoopppppp.
uh, yeah, an organized gang of thugs with a vendetta jumping someone in the middle of the night is definitely the mayor's fault because we don't have a cop on every corner all night long.
what?
Binky, I'm not sure how having a gun (or even pepper spray) would have helped when you're whacked from behind and then ganged up on by about 8 other guys. Very likely, he could have been shot with his own gun. Even more likely, I'm assuming Azia bans guns on the premisis and he wouldn't even had it on him, had he had a gun (too many "hads" there). Running away and/or protecting your face/soft parts seemed to be the best defense.
I think I'll order some take out from Tanh Do this week...I'm only a block and a half away.
Couldn't write that better for television.
Sounds like he'll be okay. Hope they catch the fuckers. Sounds like it'll be hard, though.
Here we go. Next someone will blame the new football stadium being built at the U.
totally getting Cranberry Curry Tofu and hot & sour soup from Than Do tonight...and thanking my lucky stars that I park in Block E, where it's 100% safe.
I'd rather blame the twins stadium than the U stadium.
I guess I'll take the middle ground and blame both.
Maybe the governor too? Sure, why not.
Now I'm hungry. The Carmella and Sea Bass are both excellent at Azia and if you want updated comfort food, the Kannon steak and potatoes is an asian version of the midwest staple meal. Yummy!
My paranoic suspicious conspiracy-freakish Inner Cynic is telling me that this is the kind of story that ends four months later when we find that the men were trying to recover the 80 kilos of pure Iranian meta-flake he snatched from under their noses out of the airport luggage locker in the dead of night, or that they were disciples of the new cult of the goddess Pattini sent to bring him back to his rightful place as the goddess's chef as foretold in his mother's palm lines, or that he was mistaken for someone else as he got out of his expensive car in a dark place.
Yep, it's a good thing that restaurant bans guns on it's premesis!
No way would the owner be able to carry one!
speaking of cults, does anyone know anything about the weird house on like 13th & E Hennepin?
The Phamous Group, his management company, oversees assets worth about $10 million
grote: Azia has the Cranberry Cury Tofu as well - perfect choice.
What's meta-flake?
I guess it's just unfathomable to me that a person can be in a situation where eight unknown people, bent on agression, can get close enough to attack without him first taking a defensive posture.
As for the "[Hopolophobics Club Member] Bans Guns on These Premisis" angle, then they should be legally liable, not only for effectively disarming the victim but then failing to provide adequate security after disarming said victim.
Sadly, there are waaay to many liberals in the metro.
Have you guys had the Azia spanker soup with tofu? It has cranberries too and is so delicious. I get it at least once a week.
TP left Temple, drove to Azia. Parked in the lot next to Anemone. Got out of car, got jumped, and whacked with a stick. Tried to make a run for it... blocked in my another van with a 2nd group of people. Running, trying to evade 6-8 people. Gets tackled. Dude goes to hit him with a brick, TP grabs his arm, slows it, so he doesn't get slammed with brick, it just drops on his head.
Then someone drives by Nicollet, slows down after seeing the craziness, and the men scatter.
TP said he thought it odd that if these people had a personal beef with him, that they wouldn't say anything. He said he has no idea of motiviation, but he did speculate that they may have been hired. (Although he said the guys who dined and dashed prob. wouldn't have money to hire someone- so he doubts it's them).
»» Submitted by »»» jderusha at 1:41 PM on September 5
Binky: seems like you missed Jason's earlier comment. But, I'm sure you'll have some: "if it were me" rebuttal so...
As with the beating death of Howard Porter, the facts will illuminate.
My money is on a connection to the guys he caught ripping him off previously.
And yes, WAY too many liberals in the metro.
What do you call a liberal crime victim?
A conservative.
Binky & Bud,
I love the smell of class fear in the morning.... Smells like.... Republican victory!!!
And what do you call a conservative who got sick?
A liberal.
I love how some people talk about "liberals" and "conservatives" like they're two different breeds of people. Hello! we're all human even if we have divergent ideologies!
I hope he has a full and quick recovery. What an unfortunate situation for anyone to have to go through.
You know what's hilarious? Har har, liberals drive this way, conservatives drive that way! Har har!
People who can't discuss anything that happens in the news without figuring out what their party's talking points on the subject will be, and how to spin the issue to forward their pet issues, really are just poison to a discussion.
And why does every situation turn into a liberal vs. conservative issue? I like to think I'm pretty open minded which some will call being liberal, but there are issues and situations in which I'm cut and dry which some will say is conservative.
Is it possible to have a discussion about a situation, i.e. the beat down of Thom Pham without making it political?
In light of yesterday's discussion of hypothetical race implications of urban police actions, how is it we never posed the age-old "What would happen if a successful young Asian-American were attacked by a group of white or Latino kids?"
Also, how? How did this thread get to the well-worn paths of "liberal vs. conservative"? Could one of our scientific folk on MNSpeak do some sort of thread genome project that shows where along the evolutionary chain of every thread does the discussion end up in the same damn place.
I'm buying Cat a Coke.
News story: "Cat stuck in tree, firemen rescue it"
Normal people: "aww!" and/or "so what?"
Conservatives: "What a waste of my tax dollars! Those cat-coddling liberals need to stop taxing me to rescue their lazy cats that don't pay any taxes!"
Liberals: "The cat would have never been stuck in the tree in the first place if the tree had an accessible ramp to and from the branches! If the conservatives hadn't wasted all our money on a fruitless war in Iraq we could afford to make sure that cats everywhere would never get stuck again! And give free shots and neuterings!"
Because some people just cannot resist the urge to let us know that they have all the answers. To everything.
Don't any of you realize that Thom would have been 100% protected and safe if he had just carried a gun? Geez, you're all dumb.
Yay - I win, I get a coke.
Got out of car, got jumped, and whacked with a stick. Tried to make a run for it... blocked in my another van with a 2nd group of people. Running, trying to evade 6-8 people. Gets tackled...
Got out of car and got jumped. Was he sleeping when he pulled into the parking spot? Was the guy closing the distance (with a stick in his hand no less) while he pulled into his spot wearing one of those "predator" suits that made him (the attacker) totally invisible?
Tried to make a run for it... blocked in my another van with a 2nd group of people. There's no shame in retreating, usually it's the best option. But once the 2nd van pulled up, blocking him in, it was time to take a more agressive defensive posture, defending himself with whatever force was necessary.
Running, trying to evade 6-8 people. Gets tackled... Cautiously backing up while carefully chosing shots... Beretta 92 FS holds 15 rounds of 9mm, plus one in the chamber. 2rds each x 8 people = 16. Spare mags would allow for 4 rds each, if necessary.
I do not choose to be a victim.
After reading Jason's account, it sounds like it was done out of intimidation or some such thing. And I'm ruling out the dine-and-dashers, because they were clearly too amateur hour to try something like this.
So why would somebody be trying to intimidate a restauranteur?
You know what's hilarious? Har har, liberals vote for liberal candidates, conservatives vote for conservative ones. Har har!
Except that it has real consequences, you know? Those are concrete differences, and it matters.
As for Tom, this is terrible news. I wish him a speedy recovery.
Could one of our scientific folk on MNSpeak do some sort of thread genome project that shows where along the evolutionary chain of every thread does the discussion end up in the same damn place.
Not quite what you're asking for, but hopefully it'll do. I give you, the lifecycle of an MNSpeak thread:
Binky you're creeping me out. You watch too many movies, dude.
if anyone wants a beer (or a coke?) I just got paid and am doing happy hour with frandz today after work.
I guess this probably isn't the most appropriate thread to say this in, though ):
News story: "Cat stuck in tree, firemen rescue it"
No, I'm right here, but if I knew the firemen who rescued me were H-O-T, I'd get stuck in a tree every day.
Those cat-coddling liberals
Maybe that's the problem. If everyone was coddle like the liberals coddle me, we'd all be one big slap-happy human race.
Don't any of you realize that Thom would have been 100% protected and safe if he had just carried a gun? Geez, you're all dumb.
Them's fightin' words, pardner *snort, spit* - actually when I was growing up I wanted to be like my bros so I took the gun safety course to learn to shoot and I'm a helluva shot, but the idea of carrying a gun, especially loaded is horrifying to me. Too many variables that make me way too nervous.
That graph is hilarious.
Okay, time for my nap.
Here's one I think we can agree on: 8 people against one lone, weaponless man. These 8 people are cowards.
Wayne, that graph was great!
thx!
anyone want some coddling?
Who's to say one of these douchbags didn't have a gun on them? Or in the van? Then what?
It's too bad these guys didn't beat down David Fhima. Because that guy has it coming.
binky, lighten up. unless you're a ninja, or rambo, this can happen to anyone.
"What's meta-flake?"
A flake's flake, I guess.
Even with Rambo, the other guys managed to draw first blood.
Well then call me a ninja, or call me rambo, because as deplorable as the situation is, I wouldn't have let it happen to me.
With a simple degree of situational awareness, and attention to your surroundings and your chances of being victimized like this drop to being nearly non-existent.
Binky is my hero.
Binky, you're my kinda Minnesotan!
Newsflash: Mr. Pham would have had the greenlight legally to open fire after the first stick hit him.
He was one well aimed brick slam from buying it.
No way would I ever own a restaurant (read: cash available) in those parts of town, with those hours of closing, and not "take care of myself" (be armed).
If you've ever taken any sort of self-defense, they will tell you that when you're up against more than a few people, even if armed, you're screwed.
Disagrees
How about this for headlines. Liberals and conservatives from the suburbs do not come to Minneapolis anymore because they are afraid of crime. Their money stays home. Oh, and they do not buy homes or businesses there either. Good luck Minneapolis. You are right it is not a Liberal or conservative thing but it will be a dollars and cents thing. I do not think the press will do that story.
Here's one I think we can agree on: 8 people against one lone, weaponless man. These 8 people are cowards.
»» Submitted by asIseeit at 2:15 PM on September 5
Definitely!
BTW, big gun show and sale at Bill's this weekend.
Come on down!
Protect yourself and your loved ones!
Don't be a victim!
I'm confused. Now it's fear that keeps people from going to restaurants/bars in Minneapolis? Last time I read something about a bar closing it was because of the smoking ban.
Binky is exactly the kind of guy a gun instructor dreads -- the sort who has never been in an actual gunfight, but is absolutely convinced that because he has a gun on him, and has been to the range and can hit a target, he's a superhero, no matter what the situation, no matter how many attackers.
These heroes end up shooting neighbors by accident every single day. Or accidentally shoot 10-year-olds while having a wild west-type shootout with some terrified teenage stick up man.
I'm not against concealed carry, mind you, but neither am I under the delusion pistols are an easy, or even desirable, solution to street crime.
I will look forward to seeing their glum faces in the Strib mugshots.
Cowards!
neither am I under the delusion pistols are an easy, or even desirable, solution to street crime
Machine pistols, yes.
Bill's? The place that sells spices on Lake? They have some cheap prices, I love that place.
Good riddance to suburban rubbish. Lets secede from MN! Then we can raid the suburbs! Pillage and plunder ahoy! They are afraid of us!
Well, we found out that Mr. Porter wasn't such a saint, maybe when all the facts come to light, Mr. pham won't be either.
Never know.
Well, next time someone opens fine with an automated weapon in your neighborhood, we'll see how you feel. I've actually been in neighborhoods where there was automated gunfire. You could see the bullet holes in the doors. Pistols are not as discriminating in their targets as some people would like to pretend.
isn't bills imports a greek guy?
uh-oh, those greek shipping mobs are at it again! importing kalashnikovs
or something!
Max, show me one incident of a CCer shooting his neighbor, or any "wild west shootout".
You can't.
Those are liberal anti-gun playbook talking points.
Tactical self defense strategies using a handgun must be practiced.
I am guessing Binky is well aware of that.
As am I.
Back off Binky, Max.
I once saw Binky pull up to a restaurant in his Bentley, which was outfitted with smoke bombs, lasers, and ejection seat. Then a group of ninjas jumped from the roof and circled him.
Unarmed, I jumped behind the potted plants, but could still see what was going on. Innately aware of his surroundings at all times, Binky grabbed his throwing star which was tucked into his sock and hit Ninja 1 in the eye, hence buying him the moment he needed to unholster his gun. It was a black gun, with lots of bullets in it, which is the extent of my gun knowledge. Wouldn't you know it, but only moments later, Binky had stacked Ninjas 2-8 in a pile outside the restaurant. A gaggle of glamorous women flocked him in hopes that they could kick it with real live action hero.
Needless to say, I felt like a little girlie man hiding behind the plant.
Max, you need to study point shooting.
Bill Gun Shop in Robbinsdale.
I'm with Wayne. I think only Chuck Norris could fend off this kind of attack, armed or barehanded.
(And Uma, naturally.)
(The shooter had a permit.)
It was a black gun,
racist.
You've been attacked by a large group before, Bud? I have. Point shooting isn't going to help, and there is a really good chance your gun will be taken away and used against you. Here's an example of a situation in which the victim escaped with what sound like minor injuries, where, if a gun was introduced, he might now be dead.
But go ahead and fantasize about how you would have gotten out of it, guns a-blazing.
What I want to know is how Yosemite Sam broke out of the cartoon to come and post on MNspeak today.
Poor guy.
Mind you, I find myself siding with Binky on this one, in that possibly the only force multiplier that could have made any difference in Thom Pham's favor in this attack would have been a gun. Although a lot would depend on how well he was able to maintain his cool during the chase, and whether his attackers were similarly armed, or not.
Still, when shots are fired, it should be almost as good as a 911 call in the Shotspotter range and they'd probably not have stuck around if he had been able to draw a weapon and fire it.
Going from Pham's injuries these guys weren't messing around; they could easily have killed him. I hope he recovers quickly.
Was going to write "silver gun," but was worried about being ageist.
That's called murder, dipshit.
It hardly fits Max's purported scenarios.
Light rail has killed more Minnesotans than an CC license holder.
Get a grip.
Max, my fine friend, no one is fantasizing about anything here, I'm just calling you on your knee jerk anti-gun-isms.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
cars have killed way more minnesotans than north side thugs!
now what, bud?
I'm pro-gun, Bud. I love them.
Wow...this has gone waaayyy waaayyy downhill.
When I read Marsh's account, I'm more of a mind that this was a hate crime against a high-profile gay man...which is even shittier...
"Minor injuries"?
Uh, you sound like a pro-victim victim.
There is a pack of thug / losers who need to be brought to justice here.
Let's get it done.
Lock and load, MPD!
I wonder if there is a Gun Kata dojo in these parts...
I don't think anyone is saying that 0 guns 100% of the time is the answer.
Everyone armed 100% of the time is also not the answer. You can't predict exactly how you will react in the same situation so speculating and acting like a big tuff dude is redonk. Carrying will not get you out of every dangerous scenario and stating, so ignorantly, that it will is double redonk.
This is the kind of downward spiral thread that makes me just want to quit you.
aliecat-that is idiotic, to say the least.
Based on what, exactly?
I think what is being misinterpreted is people saying they may make choices that may reduce their odds of being a victim.
That's all.
Let's focus on getting this vermin off the streets, and supporting Thom's business.
Don't quit me, Ang! You're lovely and funny and intelligent!
And cute!
I roll around in a bubble made of bulletproof glass to reduce my odds of becoming a victim. It's really heavy and I get tired pretty quickly trying to roll it, though, so I usually stay home and watch cop dramas on TV that remind me how dangerous and violent the inner-city is.
sounds like the attack was orchestrated. with that many idiots involved in a planned attack, one of them is bound to slip up and boast about the beating. I give them a week, max, before they spill the beans.
I'm skeptical that this has anything to do with homophobia. If that were the case, wouldn't the perps almost certainly have been yelling anti-gay stuff?
I'd wager that in one way or another, this comes down to business. Somebody had enough skin in this game to send two carloads of hired guns.
Redonk?
munsing may have a point. is it farfetched that there's money trouble with Temple and someone is calling in a debt?
i'm tellin you, it's these guys...
How much do you want to bet this is a PR move on his part to get people to support his dying restaurant, Temple?
hey guys, maybe I've been watching the wire to much again lately, but maybe some drug lord owns a bunch of properties around there to launder money and thom's upscale eateries are gentrifying the area and ruining his plans to get the city to tear down the neighbourhood for a renewal project and pay him off for all the shit property he bought? but since he's a drug lord and not a legitimate businessman, he can't take advantage of the slowly rising property values to make his bank. or maybe he's just impatient because selling drugs is quick money.
Relatives or friends of the two asshats he caught ripping him off.
10-1.
or maybe his restaurants are a front for laundering drug money and he tried to pull out of the game and is getting a beatdown?
or maybe
ok I'll stop. too much of the wire.
Max, my fine friend, no one is fantasizing about anything here, I'm just calling you on your knee jerk anti-gun-isms.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Actually, I haven't seen one word roll off Max's keyboard that is even remotely anti-gun. All he has said is that, in this case, he is of the mind that a gun wouldn't have helped. And I would tend to agree with him. Firing a pistol accurately from a standing position at a range takes skill. Firing a pistol while on the run from 8 attackers is an impressive feat that I think you'll find only happens in action flicks and redneck dreams.
Bottom line, it sounds like Pham was targeted. He pulled into the lot, just off a busy street, where he has seen groups of people walking for the last several years Azia has been open, and got jumped. When he tried to run, a van with more people pulled up and cut him off. Even if he had time to pull a gun, there's far from any guarantee that a group that singled him out specifically for an ass whuppin' would've backed off, especially given the possibility that any one, or more, of them had a gun.
Not to mention the simple fact that when jumped by 8 people, I'd love to see anyone, liberal or conservative, retain the kind of clarity of mind or purpose it would take to react in the way that Binky or Bud proposes.
And feel free to put your money where your mouth is. I'll be at the range in Robbinsdale on Sunday. Feel free to stop by and give a point shooting demonstration.
I want to bet zero dollars that it's a PR move. The dude came thisclose to being killed with a brick. Give me a break.
Maybe I'm a little Pollyanna on this, but does the kind of intrigue everyone's referring to really happen outside of novels and primetime television?
I want to bet $100 against it being a PR move. I'm going to be rich now.
and not rich g, just monetarily well-to-do.
The dude came thisclose to being killed with a brick.
The 400 Bar has been labeled as a "person of interest" in the assault investigation on Tom Pham.
oh zang.
It's not actually possible to watch too much of The Wire.
Maybe I'm a little Pollyanna on this, but does the kind of intrigue everyone's referring to really happen outside of novels and primetime television?
In bigger and rougher cities, yes. Not so likely here.
I don't know max, re-read my mad musings and tell me I'm not a little deranged. I watched most of season one in a single sitting this weekend. Onto season 2 this week!
I'm getting pumped for season 5.
oh and go back to the real life vs. stories thing:
art imitates life imitates art.
From the continuously updated Strib article:
He had just arrived in the parking lot of his restaurant, Azia, near 26th St. and Nicollet Ave. S. at about 3:45 a.m. Tuesday when someone grabbed him from behind.
Pham... thought some of his employees were playing a joke on him, as they often do.
Remind me to never _ever_ play a prank on blinkey, bud jr or any of the other "I'd have just shot them all" crowd here.
How likely are these Law and Order scenarios, really? Poor Thom Pham, maybe speculating on his intrinsic honesty and links to gangsters should be left until more facts are known.
teucer: redonk = ridiculous in my little world of made up words and such.
If the perps were Asian, then there's some intrigue.
I'll agree, Teucer, that we ought not delve too deeply into conjecture at this point, and I certainly didn't mean to suggest that there was anything about Tom's business that was at the root of this. I know Liz and Tom, and from everything I've ever seen, they run a clean, top notch business at Azia.
On the other hand, as more details come out, it appears to me that there is nothing at all random about this, which is what really terrified people about this at first.
Thought experiment: you're a thug, who has, along with some friends, been paid some small number of bucks to beat a guy up, and are preparing to heave a brick at his head. How interested are any of you going to be in seeing what his shooting skills, if any, are if he takes out a pistol? Might you not simply decide to leave, quickly?
Yeah, we might as well just stuff ourselves with potstickers until we find out more info.
mmm, I would kill for some potstickers right now
er, um
I mean I'd really like some
If I was one of eight thugs, I'd probably be more interested in taking that pistol away from that guy. I'd know that there were eight of me and my friends against one surprised dude who likely doesn't have the Die Hard gun skills a lot of people in this thread think they could pull out during a surprise attack at 4 in the morning.
Well, the mention of Greek mobsters earlier upthread will get your primed for season 2 of The Wire.
oh believe me I know. that's how the idea got into my head in the first place.
PR move comment had to be a sick joke. I wish I could say the same for Marsh's speculation about it being gay related. How many gay bashing crimes are there that go down in a business like non-emotional way by the perps? They would have been shouting homophobic epitaphs. This is a sad event by someone who has opened a great restaurant and revitalized that area. From the actual reports of what happened I seriously doubt gang activity (ruling out the knock out kings as well). If the reports are to be believed it seems highly organized, which would point to some sort of business related motivation. I hope they get to the bottom of this quickly to curb some of the crazy speculation. Marsh should be ashamed for posting his ridiculous speculation.
FYI world: $10,000 reward is being offered.
Do you think GirlFriday is at his bedside?
If I was one of eight thugs, I'd probably be more interested in taking that pistol away from that guy.
Yup. Happens all the time -- on TV shows, where the writer can control what happens.
In real life? Not so much.
If somebody pointed a gun at you, what would you do? Try to take the gun away and assume that the scriptwriter would protect you? Or run?
This "what if he had a gun" convo is really kind of pointless.
Hello???? He didn't! The end.
Joel, even cops have their guns taken away from them and used on them in real life -- I had a police instruction manual several years ago that was garishly illustrated with dozens of photos of dead police officers, all killed by their own guns.
It happens.
There are only two comments in this thread that have any value whatsoever. Half of this thread is fucking lunacy and the other half are people simply responding to the fucking idiots. (In case you didn't already know.)
What a fucking waste of a thread about Thom Pham and city violence to be brought down by you fucking brainwashed gun lobby talking-point "I'm thinking for myself" lunatics.
Max Sparber is worth a lot more than this bullshit. I think I need to pull an Alexis for awhile and get this off my RSS reader.
Have we been able to positively link this to welfare zombie grafitti yet?
Have an eggroll, s4xton, it'll make you feel better.
There are only two comments in this thread that have any value whatsoever
aaron...maybe your RSS reader needs a bullshit detector...there's your chance to build the proverbial better mousetrap and make your forutne.
which 2, by the way. because I thought I had a pretty good one about rules for closing shop at night
"He was driving a car: It wasn't stolen.
He had a briefcase in his car with money: it wasn't touched."
i know a guy pham is doing business with. pham has some shady friends. all i'm saying.
And I made three comments, all of which were valuable. :-)
Well, I'm not one of eight thugs, so I guess I'll just drop that train of thought.
Late payments for his candy deliveries.
My RSS reader is raising the roof right now cuz daddy made the cut!
would it really be better to have 175 posts that basically say, 'wow that sucks' ?
that sucks.
that totally sucks.
Aaron, you've been a tad crabby lately. Change your rss feed and be happy.
Dezelske: "teucer: redonk = ridiculous in my little world of made up words and such."
That's excellent.
She-she, those potstickers were really good at Azia on Sunday.
Yum.
Too bad the dude got beat. Too bad this happened a mere 500 feet from my apartment. What the hell am I supposed to do now? Move? Never leave the house again? The world is going mad! Abort! Abort! The system will self destruct in T-Minus 30 seconds!
I love the pan fried veggie potstickers. Christine and She-She, did you know they are only 5 bucks at happy hour? Azia's happy hour is SO GOOD!
That's it!
I'm totally going to Azia tonight.
Get there before 6 or after 10 and you're in happy hour city!
Redonk = short for ridiculous in Cuteoverload's little world of made up words and such.
No-good, made-up-word-plagarising thief!
Forsaking Cuteoverload to benefit your own image as a clever wordsmith is the worst karma ever.
I hope your nightmares are haunted by scores of baby animals and hamsters.
You're missing the point; cops have different issues than civilians do -- they're demonstrably much more likely to have their guns taken away and used against them, for the obvious reasons. (They're also much more likely to miss when they shoot at somebody, ditto.)
I can't believe how sad this is.
Why can't people who DESERVE it get their asses beat?
God damn it......seriously. (And you hippies can just shut it about 'no one' should have their asses beat. TONS of people deserve to).
I think it was the relatives/friends of the dine n' dashers.
Let's not jump to the conclusion that it wasn't a hate crime, either.
He's a successful, high-profile gay Asian man.
I hope he is OK. Poor dude. Really, my heart is just broken about this.
I'm with the rest of you, we'll definitely be eating at one or more of his fine establishments this weekend.
And you hippies can just shut it about 'no one' should have their asses beat. TONS of people deserve to.
Oh, Bx. I've been called hippie, crunchy, nerd, a bunch of derogatory names, among others, and I agree with you that there are a lot of people that deserve to get beat down, but karma seems to have different ideas than yours and mine so have faith that the guys who did this will get what they deserve.
I'm now off to Azia for dinner. Yum!
Christine, I think until a month ago either 2 feet or 502 feet away from each other. Crazy couple months in the Whittier Neighborhood huh?
Could any of this have anything to do with the few rumored or not so rumored additional establishments Mr. Pham was going to open but now isn't?
This just doesn't feel like typical street crime (though it would make a good Kung Fu movie.) There has to be a good revenge ending if I remember correctly.
Let's not jump to the conclusion that it wasn't a hate crime, either.
He's a successful, high-profile gay Asian man.
Well, I'm glad it's not just Marsh and I that think this is a more plausible explanation than a Minneapolis Mob hit (seriously?).
Why can't people who DESERVE it get their asses beat?
Because it's against the law.
The written law, maybe.
But not the natural law.
I'm a liberal, but not a hippie, and I think these dillholes deserve either a beatdown or a little time in state prison with a guy who hasn't seen his girl in about 15 years...
Oh and as for using a gun with a clear head, I wonder how clearly you'd be thinking after being clocked in the bean with a brick...jus' sayin'
"If I was one of eight thugs, I'd probably be more interested in taking that pistol away from that guy. "
Yeah, but the conversation would go like this:
"You take it away from him."
"No, you do it."
"Uh uh. It's your turn to grab the gun."
"Nope. It's your turn."
"I remember I grabbed it last time."
"Nope, that was Jake."
"Oh, you make this shit up as fast as you need it."
"Uh uh. Ask Jake."
"Yeah, right. How am I gonna ask Jake?! Jake's dead, you assh . . . . oh, yeah. . . . Okay, who's up for hitting White Castle instead.
or a little time in state prison with a guy who hasn't seen his girl in about 15 years...
I wonder how clearly you'd be thinking after being clocked in the bean with a brick...jus' sayin'
Nice, Alie!
Wait, bobby_b there would probably be an addition to the convo about not using real names -- dead or not.
I always think the "if I was there and had a gun... " convos are puffed up nonsense as my guess is that if you really were in this situation where you had to think quickly on your feet - especially being outnumbered -- and you having not been in this situation before would end differently than you think and not as good for you as you think.... I think.
The written law, maybe.
The written law, certainly. The one we're supposed to live by.
I dunno, Cat. If I'd been there, I would have had a gun with me -- I pretty much always carry in public -- and I'd have whipped out . . .
. . . . my cell phone and dialed 911 as fast as my stubby little fingers could have, while walking away. Eight guys I don't know beating up on one guy I don't know? Sounds like a horrible problem, but it's not my problem.
That said, I've actually been unfortunate enough to have to have a gun handy on more than one occasion, and it hasn't worked out badly -- all in all, it worked out well by comparison to what almost certainly would have happened otherwise. But only by comparison; I'd prefer to have skipped it.
My bad, didn't mean to imply I made the word up.
Wow.
I knew the Metrobloggers were lame, but they just sunk to an entirely new low level.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Joel: I read your cred and you don't count. You're an instructor with years of training and I noticed that teaching safety is a focus of your classes.
There are a number of people who carry, who are responsible and are trained in handling weapons, but they seem, like you, to be level-headed, logical and TRAINED. On the flipside, it's the people who scream they have the right to shoot anyone who's thinking of harming them that scare me as they seem a little too ready to shoot.
Cat, thanks for the praise, but, really, I'm just a guy. On the other hand, as just a guy, I've had a fair amount of contact with folks who want to carry handguns for personal protection -- I'm teaching two classes this week -- and, yup, I find that the "keen eye for the obvious" portion of the class (how avoiding a confrontation in the first place is a much bigger win than "winning" it with a handgun is) is not only easily taught but always welcomed.
Safety? You bet. But I'm not unusual in that; it's pretty bog-standard.
In fact, a large part of what I do is encourage people to get in touch with their inner coward. (We always end up discussing what to do if one is unlucky enough to be around for, say, a robbery at the SuperAmerica, and I always explain that I don't know about anybody else, but "I'll be crouching down behind the frozen foods like the coward that I am.")
That said, yup, a lot of folks have loose mouths, and seem -- emphasis intentional -- eager to shoot somebody. But, in the real world, most folks who carry a handgun will never take it out "for serious," and those folks who have been unlucky enough to have to are very unlikely to shoot. I know one of the pro-gun posters on this thread from another context, and understand why he might seem, on brief internet acquaintance, to come across as looking for an opportunity to shoot somebody, but he really isn't.
Which is why when you read about a shooting in the newspaper, you're vanishingly unlikely to find that it was a permit holder. Far as I know, while there've been many gun defenses by permit holders, there've been a total of two times in Minnesota, since carry reform passed, that a permit holder has shot at somebody; one was clearly murder -- Zach Ourada is now spending his life in prison for the murder; the (now former) HennCo sheriff should have never given him a permit, given his history -- and the other pretty clearly proper self-defense (Martin S. Treptow, who shot at and wounded a road-raging driver who was pointing a gun at his wife; Treptow was released the next day, and given back his permit).
The big difference between me and most other permit holders is that I'm a writer by trade, and I've got better skills at expressing myself than most folks do. Well, that, and that I've got less hair than the average.
Getting back to the point -- at last, eh? -- there's no way to know what would have happened if, when jumped, Thom Pham had produced a handgun, but what happens most often in such circumstances is that the attackers simply run away.
That said, folks get to do what they choose to; I'm not in favor of legally mandating that gay restauranteurs of Asian extraction -- or anybody else -- be forced to get carry permits; I am strongly in favor of folks thinking the issues through and deciding for themselves what makes sense for them.
Oh, shut up, you two.
This is about a brutally violent attack on a pretty nice local guy who didn't deserve it. NOT about your personal views on gun concealment laws.
Take your tiny penises out of each other's mouths and find a different place to debate your tiny penises. I mean, guns.
Bx, you might find, should you achieve some small measure of wisdom at some point later in life, that the best way to encourage a thread you wish to go away to actually to continue is to tell folks engaged in it to shut up; adding fodder by exposing -- so to speak -- your own Freudian problems only makes it more likely.
Bullseye!
Bx is down.
Well played.
Oh, blow it out your kugelberg, you old windbag.
Anyone see the news reports with Thom last night? He looked pretty chipper for someone who just went through what he went through.
They were saying his own night cleaning crew wouldn't let him in to the restaurant because his head was so bloody and swollen. They didn't recognize him.
I hope they figure out who it was.
Joel...just curious....do you disarm yourself when confronted with a This Establishment Bans Guns" sign, or do you just avoid such establishments?
Nope, bud, still here. Sorry to disappoint you.
Grote, with one exception, I avoid such establishments as much as I can, and don't think I've been in one in at least three years (it's why I've never been to Azia -- my family and I were going to go, one evening, but we saw the signs and went elsewhere); in that one exception, I disarm, not out of compliance with the law -- there's no legal reason to, particularly -- but out of respect for the owners. (I only do business there because my younger kid took shelter there during a storm; I don't feel right about either completely avoiding the place, or violating their posted wishes, as foolish as I think those wishes are.)
(And you hippies can just shut it about 'no one' should have their asses beat. TONS of people deserve to).
I'm probably one of the people you'd call a hippie, but I totally agree some people deserve to be beaten silly with a sack full of doorknobs. I may even be one of those people.
wayne...you're just angry and delusional (but in a good way), not a hippie. of course you want to watch people get their asses beat.
I don't want to see it, I just want to know the right people had it done to them. Possibly including myself, which I guess I'd have to see.
Sack full of doorknobs!!!!!
Usually a reference to a heavier woman's backside.
Joel: I truly appreciate your insight and though we will most likely always sit on opposite sides of this issue, it's refreshing to have a civil conversation regarding a pretty emotional topic without being told I'm an idiot for my opinion or called other names for a differing viewpoint.
And your last two paragraphs:
Getting back to the point -- at last, eh? -- there's no way to know what would have happened if, when jumped, Thom Pham had produced a handgun, but what happens most often in such circumstances is that the attackers simply run away.
That said, folks get to do what they choose to; I'm not in favor of legally mandating that gay restauranteurs of Asian extraction -- or anybody else -- be forced to get carry permits; I am strongly in favor of folks thinking the issues through and deciding for themselves what makes sense for them.
Well said. TP chose a different route of self-defense (Judo) and in his case it did not serve him well. It sounds as if TP realizes he was targeted, but for what reasons he is not speculating.
Let's hope that there are no long term physical issues for TP and I wish him a speedy recovery.