Vlado: we had a bit of an internal issue with the videotape of the interviews with the bicyclists. We weren't able to air the tape. I quoted one of the riders who was pepper sprayed in my web article.
And I get that CM doesn't want to be seen as an organized group: but I'm sorry, when 200 bicycles meet at one spot and drive in one place at one time the same time each month, that seems like an organized group to me. And CM people have been e-mailing me, ticked that I called them "anti-automobile." Again: they take over the streets once a month -- blocking traffic, running red lights, etc-- andpreach against how cars are bad and strain our resources. This sounds anti-automobile to me.
I think I was clear in saying police never had a problem with the group in the past, and actually agrees with the message of the group. They have a problem with one rider driving towards traffic, trying to provoke.
Typically: it's not a good idea for 100 people to surround 2 officers who are trying to make an arrest, and yell at the officers, swear at the officers, etc. On the raw video, you hear people chanting, "Let him go! Let him go!" and "What's the Charge? What's the charge?" and a lot of the F word.
Police say people were physically interfering with the arrest: trying to pull the cops off the biker. Is this true? I have no idea. But the video provided to us by a friend of a rider was pretty clear that the group was not exactly standing there letting police do their business.
»» Submitted by»»»msparber at 11:27 AM on September 1
Looks like kind of a weak turnout from the photos...
Holy crap what's that black guy doing there? Doesn't he know that CM is only for middleclass white kids?
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 11:32 AM on September 1
That was pretty much pure trolling, Maz. If you want to participate in this discussion, fine, but limit it to facts and reason, please, not pissy invective.
Plenty of people who participate in CM are not white or not middle class.
»» Submitted by»»»msparber at 11:39 AM on September 1
Well, I certainly understand why I'm held to a different standard than you white folks.
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 11:41 AM on September 1
And now you're just babbling.
»» Submitted by»»»msparber at 11:43 AM on September 1
I read all the links. It is kind of a fascinating event on a number of levels. Seems to be sort of a Pre-RNC dry run in some ways.
I don't really get the whole protest the Republicans thing coming from the far left. If you're communist/anarchist, and don't believe in private property rights, capitalism, all that - I would think the first order of business would be trying to change the hearts and minds of the 75% of Democrats who dont agree with you.
»» Submitted by»»»s4xton at 12:14 PM on September 1
Holy crap what's that black guy doing there? Doesn't he know that CM is only for middleclass white kids?
I don't know what color you are Maz, but you need to get out more. Critical Mass happens in various forms all over the world with all kinds of people.
»» Submitted by pas at 12:20 PM on September 1
I can easily imagine a scenario where the bicyclists provoked someone, and then the police overreacted.
Still, the naivety and lack of savvy that the urban, activist commie lib approaches the police is truly amazing. Instead of clearing the area, they're trying to engage the police in discourse, educating the police about their free speach and assembly rights. Asking, why are you arresting that person... It's a recipe for a beat down.
»» Submitted by 108 at 12:28 PM on September 1
Looks like a bourgeois movement to me. Kids who grew up in the surburbs felt their Daddies didn't pay enough attention to them, but loved riding bikes with their friends.
So now they're going to rebel. It's tiresome.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 12:33 PM on September 1
I would think the first order of business would be trying to change the hearts and minds of the 75% of Democrats who dont agree with you.
I agree. I usually sympathize with these ultra-progressive types but I find their strategies are almost always crappy.
»» Submitted by»»» jeffk at 12:41 PM on September 1
What happened to journalism and ethics? WCCO's 10PM newscast last night was disgusting. It was completely one-sided and above everything else, that newscast is misleading everyone in the Twin Cities to think the bikers are at fault. Not only that, it made Critical Mass out to be some sort of terrorist organization, calling them "anti-automobile," which is hardly the complete truth. Completely unacceptable reporting. I think this is the first time I've been upset with WCCO. I expect this from KMSP, but not WCCO.
I may be a bit harsh, but I guess WCCO is trying to protect it's reputation and trust with metro police departments, so they can continue to bring us (*dramatic music*) EXCLUSIVE BREAKING NEWS.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 12:46 PM on September 1
everyone in the Twin Cities to think the bikers are at fault.
Of course they're at fault. They're gathering for purpose of challenging police and breaking the law.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 12:55 PM on September 1
These bicyclists have no idea how counterproductive stunts like this are. It's a lark for them. Helluva good time.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 1:01 PM on September 1
I've always been a supporter of Critical Mass, but I will agree that, after watching the videos, the whole thing looked pretty bratty. Who raises their arms and rallies a crowd to starts chanting, "Let them go" when you don't even know what the guy did or what the charge is? It's not a revolution, people, so stop trying to make it one. There's a difference between protesting police brutality and inciting a crowd to ridiculous measures. Perhaps the police acted wrongfully...then there's still a responsibility to react in a way that does not deserve further ill action.
Oh, and the original "law-breaka" who escaped into the crowd when police tried to arrest him? What a freaking coward.
They are anti-car. Thats a fair representation of the truth.
Jason and CCO aren't obligated to use non-judgemental, neutral language. As reporters they have an obligation to present the truth, and they did.
That ride was meant to be provactive, provoke it did, and thats what was reported.
»» Submitted by 108 at 1:06 PM on September 1
They are anti-car. That *is* non-judgemental, neutral language. But why not? Of all of the things to be "anti-", cars are a pretty good one. I just don't like the rhetorical trick that if someone is anti-something, they must automatically be unreasonable.
»» Submitted by»»» jeffk at 1:20 PM on September 1
LOL Maz.
Get over yourself, Sparber. There's a kernel of truth in what he is saying, and that's EXACTLY why it gets to you. Your response to his "pretty much pure trolling" is "pretty much pure passive aggressiveness." BORING. WEAK.
Keep it up Maz. I have a hearty appreciation for it.
God forbid anyone makes these discussions actually INTERESTING. Thank god for trolls.
Now, back to the CM discussion.
»» Submitted by Bx at 12:22 PM on September 1
Total bullshit that the police never had a problem with Critical Mass in the past, and Officer Allen especially should know: http://www.mncriticalmass.org/html/ridereports/March2002.html Allen was involved in the follow up when the police rode with the mass for a few months and then stopped after a bunch of cyclists showed up in Village People costumes and rode in the back with the police.
The week after the 2002 March MASSacre a bunch of CM riders met with Chief of Police Olsen and Rybak. A few weeks later the City Council repealed the only ordinance in the state requiring bike licenses, every other municipality had it set up as optional, as Mpls now does.
Bikes have the same rights as cars, heck, bikers organized the first efforts for good roads back in the 1890's. CM isn't about breaking the law, it's a celebration of the cleanest, most efficient and fun way to transport.
To say Critical Mass is anti-car is like saying pro-choice is anti-life. The majority of Critical Mass riders and supporters simply want to reduce dependence on single occupancy vehicles, and call more attention to bicycle transit funding, bike lanes, and bring the attention of drivers (who don't realize bikes have the same legal rights as cars on streets) so bikers don't get killed. But alas, like any organization, there are a few bad apples. I won't say that "anti-automobile," as reported on WCCO is judgmental, but it's not an accurate representation of Critical Mass.
But that's just my opinion, of course.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 1:26 PM on September 1
How about this video of a cop spraying everyone with mace with no provocation: video.
CM is not about fighting with cops, anarchy, commies, etc. It is about gathering once a month and cruising with your bikes down the street.
Oh and a good journalist is to be neutral and present both sides. Not to have a demeaning tone towards a certain group in order to please suburban SUV drivers.
I wouldn't expect more from local tv "news" though anyway, they have a reputation for some through "journalism" if you even want to call it that. Wasn't there a cat stuck in a tree somewhere to report.....
»» Submitted by»»»vlado4 at 1:37 PM on September 1
Bikes have the same rights as cars, heck, bikers organized the first efforts for good roads back in the 1890's. CM isn't about breaking the law, it's a celebration of the cleanest, most efficient and fun way to transport.
I'm all for bikes, but, as a pedestrian, I think your forgetting a cleaner, more efficient, and more fun way to transport.
»» Submitted by»»»msparber at 1:40 PM on September 1
I just noticed in that video link what appears to be a Police Officer swinging at an individual who is already on the ground and being held by three officers.
I am completely outraged.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 1:57 PM on September 1
I won't defend the police. I have a healthy skepticism of their practices and abilities. But that is par for the course. They use enough enough force, more than enough, to guarantee submission. Again, naivete and lack of savvy.
»» Submitted by 108 at 2:08 PM on September 1
The problem, 108, is that they don't often justify their use of force. What were the reasons for this whole moronic incident? Someone "felt" like someone was yelling at cars, or someone crossed over a yellow line. No reason to arrest someone, and apparently the crowd saw that.
Okay wait, maybe no reason to arrest completely justifies beating the shit out of someone.
It is about gathering once a month and cruising with your bikes down the street.
Looks like a good deal more than that. There were people there wanting to get arrested. Wanting to interrupt traffic. They broke the law and now they're whining.
Next time Critical Mass tries to raise awarness and issues they should do it through traditional means. It's slower and not as much fun as dodging cops, but the group won't be making enemies in the numbers its doing with stunts like this.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 2:16 PM on September 1
I think that democrats of good standing, should any still exist, should take their little leftist friends aside and teach them how to behave like adults. It would certainly be cheaper for the taxpayers.
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 2:23 PM on September 1
The problem, 108, is that they don't often justify their use of force. What were the reasons for this whole moronic incident? Someone "felt" like someone was yelling at cars, or someone crossed over a yellow line. No reason to arrest someone, and apparently the crowd saw that.
They're not going to have to justify it until someone drags them into court over it, if it gets that far. This is the way people get arrested if theres any physicality involved at all. Again, you folks are shocked, shocked I tell you. I believe the naivete is sincere, but, cmon.
»» Submitted by 108 at 2:25 PM on September 1
First of all, Critical Mass participants are repeatedly told to talk about this event in terms of a celebration (or similar language) rather than a protest or demonstration, so they can do so without having to notify police in advance.
And anyone even vaguely aware of CM will tell you these are, by and large, middle-class white folks, many of whom (secretly) live on trust funds.
Getting arrested is TOTALLY THE POINT. That's why they do it, so they can then turn around and publicly whine about how mistreated they are and how they're just trying to have a simple "celebration" and the big, bad pigs come down on them for no reason whatsoever.
BULLSHIT!
»» Submitted by just sayin' at 2:34 PM on September 1
I don't like going to critical mass. I think they do tend to be rather volatile. I think the idea of critical mass, that the more bikers there are, the more cars will learn to share the road and be aware of bikers, is better enacted on a day to day basis. Bikers who are out there, everyday, representing the bike presence, do more to enable safety and bike/car harmony than the cm events.
On the other hand, I feel the same way about violent environmentalists, fuming feminists, and other over-the-top left wing radicals. And I must admit that while their style is distasteful to me, they may indeed do more to provoking change than my arm chair philosophy. Indeed I believe many people despise radical environmentalists, but at the same time recycle. Many people are disgusted by man-hating feminists but still believe in gender equality, and many people hate the CM bike messenger guerillas but at the same time respect bicyiclists and their right to drive safely on our roads.
»» Submitted by»»»she-she at 2:40 PM on September 1
We agree with the rights of the bicyclists, but as they have the same rights as the cars that they share the road with, they should also be subject to the same laws.
That means they should have to be licensed/registered, it used to be that way, and should be able to get ticketed the same as an automobile driver.
And why the big deal about being called "anti-automobile", it's not a swear word. Stick and stones, etc, etc, etc.
There's always that hooligan element that has to put their 2 cent's in. They take something good and turn it to trash.
»» Submitted by 2oldfarts at 2:59 PM on September 1
It's 100% the bikers' fault here.... These CM events are designed to agitate the public and get the attention of the police so they can get arrested, be a martyr, and complain about brutality and how they're so mistreated. It's so transparent.
I don't think CM is putting a positive message out about bikes at all. A more positive message would be a bike rally where a similar number of bikes would ride single file down a street and obey all traffic laws and show the drivers that bikers can follow the rules and can coexist with cars peacefully.
To all the idiots resenting the "anti-automobile" label: Guess what, that's what you are. Quit being a bunch of mewling little whiners and suck it up. You guys got what you wanted, you should be happy.
Even more abhorrent is the connection to the anarchist RNC group that isn't even being denied by the CM folks. Fuck that shit. Basically makes the CM look like exactly what a lot of people pin on them: extreme leftists who will do whatever it takes to get noticed.
»» Submitted by cdiggity at 3:02 PM on September 1
Maz, do you recycle?
»» Submitted by Duderino at 3:15 PM on September 1
Bikes have the same rights as cars,
And the same obligations. If a driver was putting others at risk and fled police, would there be much sympathy/out rage?
»» Submitted by»»»Jonathan at 3:15 PM on September 1
How about this video of a cop spraying everyone with mace with no provocation
really? everyone got sprayed? or did you mean nobody got sprayed.
Okay wait, maybe no reason to arrest completely justifies beating the shit out of someone.
being gently taken off one's bicycle qualifies as getting the shit beat out of them? must be all sea shells and puppy dogs in your world, eh?
i am continually amazed at the professionalism and self-restraint the police show in these situations. it must be so hard to not beat the fuck out of these arrogant pricks.
»» Submitted by cubbie at 3:04 PM on September 1
I think that democrats of good standing, should any still exist, should take their little leftist friends aside and teach them how to behave like adults
I'm totally down for this...but first you as a Republican need to instruct your Senators on bathroom etiquette.
»» Submitted by grote at 3:13 PM on September 1
You can clearly see that people did get maced. And I saw a number of people with red eyes and faces. You can clearly see a Police Officer grabbing and throwing someone to the ground in the video. But hey, if you want to label them, go right ahead -- it's only demonstrating lack of understanding.
I have yet to hear anything about the State Patrol helicopter that was evidently video taping from above. Why isn't this video public?
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 3:20 PM on September 1
Kedster : I'm a little disappointed that you come on here slamming WCCO's coverage after I took the time to e-mail you directly, and we had a pretty nice exchange. But whatever. Everyone has their agenda.
The State Patrol video will be public (feel free to file a freedom of information request with the State Patrol) as will be the squad car video from MPD. But, it won't be released until after the court case works its way through, as it's part of an investigation. That's how it works. You don't get it the next day.
Same thing with bail. People are all hot about the people being held "without bail." That's what happens when you get arrested on a Friday night for a gross misdemeanor. You don't have bail set until you go before a judge, usually on Saturday, but this is a holiday weekend, so maybe it'll be Tuesday. It's nothing special for these guys.
And people say my story was so one-sided. They're ticked that I called the group anti-automobile. I don't get what the big deal is. Are they trying to say they're pro-car? They're neutral on cars?
Of course people got maced. When police try to make an arrest, and 100 people start chanting and yelling, and cops tell people to move back, that's what's going to happen.
As for the video showing a cop taking a swing: I hope that will be investigated. That seems ridiculous to me-- and I didn't notice it at first, as we got the video at 9:00 p.m., and I did the cop interview at 9:05 p.m. I wish I knew: I would have asked police.
»» Submitted by»»»jderusha at 3:24 PM on September 1
Jason, you apparently didn't see my last response to you, or replied before giving me a chance to reply to you. I'm not personally attacking you, and my statements are in disappointment. I expect a lot from WCCO because I grew up with the station and it's the best the Twin Cities has. I know video won't be released immediately, but if this was a high profile case (I'm not going to cite any examples), they would be proactive in getting it out there. I believe CBS's "Without a Trace" described the relationship between police and media perfectly in one of their episodes where the missing white kid got media attention and the missing black kid didn't -- it's sometimes out of the control of the media, and it's sometimes out of the control of the police.
And "agenda" is far from the word. I am not a regular attendee or participant of Critical Mass, I just witnessed it and was shocked. As I've stated elsewhere, I am normally a supporter of the MPD and their programs, especially CCP/SAFE, which is why this is so shocking. I expect this out of the south, not Minneapolis.
If you look at the Hennepin County Sheriff's Roster, you will see people being arrested in unrelated events: DWI's, assaults, and their bails are set. As I stated in my contact with you, I was told by an employee of the jail that their bail will not be set for at least 48 hours, more likely on Tuesday since it's a holiday on Monday. So, they are currently being held without bail, and that's a direct quote.
I would refer back to my comment stating that saying they're anti-car is like saying pro-choice is anti-life.
I again appreciate you taking the time to explain your side, and the technical difficulties WCCO apparently had for the 10PM newscast -- stuff happens, and there's a tight schedule. There's one way to fix it though: a better report in the coming days at 10.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 3:34 PM on September 1
If CM were so pro-bike why do they vandalize the greenway?
ROund the fuckers, up, I say. Show them what happens to snot-nosed lawbreakers. And since they get the saame rights as drivers, put an excise tax on the purchase of bicycles. Free-loaders otherwise.
»» Submitted by kevin is ready for bed at 3:34 PM on September 1
Jason, don't even fret about it.... These people go after anyone who doesn't support their agenda. Just because you're not a reporter for a leftist rag means you're the enemy.
These people are CLEARLY anti-automobile and the fact that these rides are about blocking automobile traffic rather than coexisting with it just shows that. It's about pissing off drivers in cars, making them late and inconveniencing them in a huge orgy of groupthink and delusions of revolution. These white suburban-bred kids get a little taste of rebellion and they run with it. It's hilarious because they have no idea how to run a protest, how to get arrested in a protest, etc....
They could learn a lot from the civil disobedience and protests during the civil rights movement in the 60s, when you get arrested, simply sit down and take it. You don't fight, you don't get in the cops faces if you aren't getting arrested. The fact that you're peacefully getting arrested for doing nothing wrong is a statement alone. Instead, these CM folks just come off as asshats.
»» Submitted by cdiggity at 3:37 PM on September 1
Fair enough, Tony; and I did respond before I got your response. So I appreciate that.
I understand everyone's frustrations. I just think people are coming at me for being unfair... when in reality, we gave this story more coverage and had the only video of the incident actually happening. Did any other station had interviews with bikers? No. We're being slammed because we covered the story, and we have a website that gets updated on Friday night. So my story is there.
When I looked back at what I said... there really wasn't anything that was that loaded. I said they were anti-automobile (which apparently is debatable). I describe what happened on the video. I said no one was hurt (come on-- seriously, no one was hurt. Bumps and bruises, and eye burns from pepper spray). That's about it.
People are mad at police, and mad I didn't do a story going out there and saying: The police totally overreacted, arresting and beating up some peace-loving bicyclists, out for a Friday night ride. They're not protesters and they're not anti-car. They aren't a group, and they aren't organized. The cops used mace! Meanies!
The people I interviewed simply talked about being pepper sprayed.. and that they weren't doing anything wrong. I believe them, but I don't think my story suggested everyone who was pepper sprayed deserved it. I got pepper sprayed when the U of M students rioted after the Frozen Four hockey win. I didn't deserve it. But that's what happens when pepper spray is fired into the air.
»» Submitted by»»»jderusha at 3:42 PM on September 1
Kedster, you're correct about the video. It does look like people got maced. It also looks like a ton of people were hovering near officers who were trying to arrest someone and screaming at the officers. One officer managed to control the safety of the arresting officers and the detained person by spraying mace in the direction of the crowd.
In my opinion, the officer did a great job controlling the situation.
»» Submitted by»»»edkohler at 3:27 PM on September 1
Being pepper sprayed while obstructing traffic is not that outrageous in my book. Being pepper sprayed while streaking the Geek Prom, however...
»» Submitted by»»» aliecat at 3:49 PM on September 1
That would be the perfect newscast, except you forgot to mention the cooties and ohmygosh, GO GREEN! Just kidding, but I do appreciate the comedy. I would never expect a newscast like that, and I would probably be giving more angry comments if that was actually what aired. After I TiVo'd it and watched it over and over, that is.
I was simply looking for more than [here's what the police told us] and then [of course, they say something else, but we won't tell you what they said].
Pepper spray does come back at the officers too, so it's safe to say that the pepper spray went everywhere and I'm sure officers felt it too. I'm sure a lot of people deserved getting sprayed, when you isolate individual incidents. I'm sure those officers weren't scared beyond all imagination when they were surrounded, which doesn't say I agree with how it all started, or how it all ended. And I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't hurt -- we don't know yet.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 3:58 PM on September 1
I was trying to say the officers WERE scared, not WEREN'T.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 4:05 PM on September 1
Oh well. See you at Fletcher's then?
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 4:11 PM on September 1
OK, it's Saturday, I'm going outside. We have some great bike trails up here in the MG... I'll keep to them. :-)
»» Submitted by»»»jderusha at 4:13 PM on September 1
Try biking down Elm Creek Blvd, in the street. There's a riot for you =P
Have fun.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 4:21 PM on September 1
Update: bail has been set by judicial review at $3,000 for the 13 who were listed as inmates. One has posted bail and is in the process of being released as court dates are set.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 4:24 PM on September 1
I think it's a little suspicious that the original agitator "disappeared".
Sounds a little like the local thugs in blue warming up their agent provocateur tactics prior to the RNC convention.
Or do we like to pretend that doesn't happen, until it does, and they claim it was an anomaly?
I can't believe it's even NEWS! Seriously, a bunch of dumb brats on bikes?
I'd RATHER hear about a cat stuck in a fucking tree than this irrelevant bullshit.
If they actually managed to change people's thinking positively, influence legislation or blow something up, THEN it is NEWS.
DeRusha, when "stories" like this pop up I wish you'd stand up for your own journalistic integrity as well as other reporters, and REFUSE TO COVER crap like this. You're a pretty good reporter and WAY above wasting your time on something like this; it's essentially a fluff lifestyle piece. SERIOUSLY.
»» Submitted by Bx at 4:45 PM on September 1
Ahhhh modern times; when civil rights are "fluff".
News Flash: Kitty Stuck in Tree. Saved by Brave Fire Fighter.
News Flash: Blogger uses all Capital letters to empasize correctness and intelligence. Secretly considers escalation to multiple punctuation to end sentences.
I believe CBS's "Without a Trace" described the relationship between police and media perfectly
Just repeating this for its sheer hilarity.
»» Submitted by just sayin' at 5:14 PM on September 1
it's essentially a fluff lifestyle piece. SERIOUSLY.
Do police end up playing a role in fluff lifestyle pieces? What are you talking about?
People are getting arrested! The police were called in for deliberate civil disobedience.
They used to call things like that riots.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 5:29 PM on September 1
Yeah Rat, emphasis on "used to" be called riots.
Now it's called "boring bullshit not worthy of news coverage."
If all you dorks think these wanna-be hippies are somehow noble because they got the cops called on them, then go and bail their asses out and give them all handjobs while you're at it. That would be more constructive and more legal than what they failed at.
»» Submitted by Bx at 5:33 PM on September 1
Hope none of them are being taunted by some guard named Igor who wants to dance with them.
»» Submitted by»»»s4xton at 8:56 PM on September 1
"How about this video of a cop spraying everyone with mace with no provocation"
Too many think that "provocation" has to mean "swinging at the police first." Not so.
Cops are tasked to maintain the peace, and to enforce laws. When police give an order, to an individual or to a crowd, and that order is made either for the purpose of restoring peace, or to put the individual or crowd into compliance with the law, they're not making friendly suggestions or meekly asking for something to be done. Their orders at that point in time have the force of law behind them.
When an individual or a crowd refuses to obey a lawful order of the police, the police do NOT then merely have to sit back and hope for better days. The police are then empowered to use reasonable means to MAKE the individual or crowd obey that order.
It's long been established in our society that the use of mace in such a situation as we saw here is reasonable. "No provocation" is what you yell when your little brother hits you first, not when you've directly challenged the duty and the power of the police to make the streets safe and usable for everyone.
I understand that it's way more convenient, and allows for more loud outrage, to simply forget that Thoreau included "take the punishment" as one of the honorable requirements for c.d., but it makes you appear as whiney brats.
»» Submitted by»»» bobby_b at 8:22 PM on September 1
So, Sm says:
"Right in the middle of the so-called riot, when 19 cyclists were arrested by the MPD. I was in the middle of terrified kids scrambling off their bikes after being maced."
When did "kids" get so fucking stupid as to think that a mass of them could ignore clear and rather pointed police orders to break up the group move away, and just assume that nothing could ever happen to them unless someone asked their permission first? Is this just upper-class entitlement bullshit? Or a symptom of a consequence-free life up to that point?
Funny thing is, it appears that "Critical Mass" has more meaning than they expected. 200 of them blocking the roads and flipping off the police does implicate a critical mass, after all.
»» Submitted by»»» bobby_b at 8:59 PM on September 1
You guys want to see some anarchists? Go down to the Jack Pine on the south side of lake just east of minnehaha.
»» Submitted by»»»bretton at 8:29 PM on September 1
The one big thing I think people are really missing about this story is that this might be more about this than it is about Critical Mass.
They, the bloggers and media are all giving CM a bad rap. I think this whole story might be more about the pReNC who decided to join up with CM this time around.
»» Submitted by»»»s4xton at 9:12 PM on September 1
based on marsh's account, it does seem that the PRNCers and not the CMers were the ones who escalated the situation. Hopefully other peaceful protest groups will see this and will distance themselves appropriately.
»» Submitted by grote at 9:20 PM on September 1
I just think if you hand a bunch of little yellow cards that say, "You don't have to talk to a police officer, ever," you might be spoiling for a fight.
»» Submitted by stevemarsh at 9:40 PM on September 1
Jack Pine's involved in this? The Jack Pine that gets its name from the way jack pine trees regenerate areas after everything's been incinerated by the white-hot flames of a massive forest fire?
Naw, I'm thinking they're looking for peaceful change.
»» Submitted by»»» bobby_b at 9:41 PM on September 1
IndyMedia, who I am losing a lot of respect for, by the way, framed it this way:
Police attacked a Critical Mass in downtown Minneapolis during the pReNC today and arrested at least twenty people using mace, pepper spray, tasers and brutal force on crowd of cyclists with no provocation.
That is horrible "journalism." It almost implies that pReNC was putting on Critical Mass. And we'll see if there was really "no provocation." The videos out there sure seem to show they were provoked. Speaking hypothetically: if you're a police officer and you actually use "brutal force on a crowd" with "no provocation" with a hundred witnesses, you're not going to last very long as a police officer.
Also, responding to Bretton:
You guys want to see some anarchists? Go down to the Jack Pine on the south side of lake just east of minnehaha.
I'm a few blocks away and I considered going down to Jake Pine as I live a few blocks away. There was a huge group there yesterday when I drove by. They're not game with the media and I think a blogger with a camera is close enough. They're scheming shit all weekend and I would be surprised if the feds don't have someone imbedded with them. I prefer not be associated.
»» Submitted by»»»s4xton at 9:32 PM on September 1
"That is horrible "journalism.""
It's a lousy Christmas card verse, too, but it wasn't written to be either.
"They're not game with the media and I think a blogger with a camera is close enough."
Just as we shouldn't cede our streets and parks to a-holes, neither should we cede our cities to them. Their "huge groups" are going to be joined by many people over the next few weeks, taking notes and sharing impressions.
»» Submitted by»»» bobby_b at 9:46 PM on September 1
This is the group I'm talking about. I work at Arise, the progressive/radical bookstore, and after seeing this video:
of canadian cops acting as provovatuers I sent an email to the group suggesting we ban face masks for the protests. The masks not only turn off 90% of the population to their cause, but allow police to infiltrate them more easily.
A couple of kids got all indignant with me, called me a sell out, but I could really care less. Their ideas are property destruction and confrontation. Really ineffective tools for social change at this point in history. So when their friends pour into the twin cities by the hundreds a year from now, legitimate protesters who wish to air their grievances might be forced into "free speech zones" all because of these little kids who don't know what it really means to be a socialist libertarian. Here's their promotional video:
Personally, what I would like to see happen is everyone in the Minneapolis blogosphere sign petitions to take down to the Jack Pine collective informing them that we don't want a bunch of out of town masked idiots running through our streets causing damage.
Again this is from someone who still considers the ideals of philisophical anarchism very relevant today.
»» Submitted by»»»bretton at 10:04 PM on September 1
" think this whole story might be more about the pReNC who decided to join up with CM this time around"
Right on , that's what I was trying to say too. The CM may have had issues in the past, but not in this neck of the woods.
Can anyone vouch for the truthiness of all the "pReNC" members? There may be something bigger going on here and like Lennon said "I am the Walrus" No. vladimir i lennon, Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov.
Only in minneapolis would the local anarchists provide child care for their members.
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 10:30 PM on September 1
socialist libertarian = oxymoron
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 10:31 PM on September 1
Go to the main Jack Pine anarchist web site.
It's full of rules.
("Anarchist" means "just my rules, thank you.")
»» Submitted by»»» bobby_b at 10:32 PM on September 1
"Again this is from someone who still considers the ideals of philisophical anarchism very relevant today."
The ideals may well be, but you've been completely co-opted out of the name itself by its mis-users. "Non-archy" might buy it back, simply because dropping the overused and misunderstood name that no longer provides its deconstructed meaning - it's now more of a brand name without intrinsic meaning, like Kleenex - would give you an opportunity once again to say a name and have people look at it and try to figure out what it means from its root (as in "hmmm "non" and "archy", so "no" "rulers".")
Heck, I do the "no rules" jokes too - they're too easy, even though that's not what it means - but "anarchy" is now a word owned by and associated with masked people running and burning and trashing anywhere a WTO guy spends a night.
»» Submitted by»»» bobby_b at 10:34 PM on September 1
Maz,
I've had this debate many times. Just because the libertarian party are all anarcho capitalists doesn't mean I can't call myself a socialist libertarian because I believe in universal health care, child care, and state protection of the environment along with gun rights, abortion rights, abolishment of the IRS etc....
»» Submitted by»»»bretton at 11:13 PM on September 1
More than ever, this demonstrates the need for more witnesses. I'm not trying to be an advertisement, but this is exactly why The Uptake was formed -- to recruit and train people with video cameras to be out there recording stuff like this, especially during the RNC. Bike helmet cams, live webcams, you name it. Even better if you're willing to take it to the next level and provide some analysis and do some interviews.
I think DeRusha did a commendable job. If we're merely quibbling about whether Critical Mass is "anti-automobile" then we've come a long way. If you want to put a better spin on it, pick up a video camera and say something yourself, upload it to YouTube or maybe we'd put it on The Uptake.
And yeah, it sounds like one or two pReNC rowdies pushed the normally peaceful Critical Mass crowd into a bad situation with the police, and everyone suffered. Marsh nailed it - this was a dry run for soldiers in the coming RNC War.
I think Bretton is on to something -- I would not personally allow anyone with a masked face to be part of my peaceful protest group. Be transparent, open, and non-violent or get the hell away from me. I'm sure some of them are fine folks, and their promotional video is funny as hell, but how do we know which of them are out for trouble? We don't.
»» Submitted by»»»chuck at 11:47 PM on September 1
Just because the libertarian party are all anarcho capitalists doesn't mean I can't call myself a socialist libertarian because I believe in universal health care, child care, and state protection
Sure it does. Where's the liberty in relying on the state to pay for your healthcare, childcare and other state protections?
Libertarians believe in freedom .. not free stuff.
"Liberty" means being liberated from the clutches of the state. The only thing you're free of is logic.
But I suppose you can still be a good socialist and like guns and abortions. And you don't have to be a capitalist to hate the IRS.
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 12:01 AM on September 1
We don't know which ones are cops. I went down to the pReNC tonight and asked if anyone knew the bike rider in question. They didn't. What's more important is that they don't know which ones are cops are are likely to do whatever the guy next to them are doing.
»» Submitted by»»»bretton at 12:10 AM on September 1
I'm not saying the government needs to provide the health care, but you're in the wrong town if you want to argue that anyone should profit off of me getting sick or that an HMO should be more profitable through denying claims.
I'm simply for maximizing individual liberty while realizing that capitalism sounds great on paper, but always leads to corporatism in the end.
You voting Ron Paul, Maz?
»» Submitted by»»»bretton at 12:15 AM on September 1
capitalism sounds great on paper, but always leads to corporatism in the end.
Huh? The computer you used to write that is a product of capitalism. And corporations are nothing more than a collection of people who have banded together for the purpose of making money. Kind of like a labor union only with a worthwhile product and greater freedom for its members.
Ron Paul is a pacifist. I'm a military veteran who believes we should nuke mecca. We don't agree on some pretty important things.
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 12:20 AM on September 1
Boys, boys -- you're not going to resolve well-worn ideological differences on this MNspeak thread. Give it a rest, please.
Back to masked crusaders: Yes, there's the possibility or likelihood that a masked troublemaker is a cop or other infiltrator trying to make demonstrators look bad. It could just as well be a genuine "by any means necessary" anarchist.
Either way, if you're wearing a masked you are marginalizing yourself and labeling yourself a potential troublemaker. Non-violent demonstrators should push these people out. (I say that, in spite of having attended many protests led my masked anarchists.)
Regardless of masks or ideology, we need more citizen journalists out there with cameras to make sure justice is served.
»» Submitted by»»»chuck at 12:28 AM on September 1
Interesting. The anarchists will be wearing masks and the RNC delegates will be wearing name tags.
What is it that the protesters are supposedly protesting again?
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 12:40 AM on September 1
No, this computer is a product of corporate socialism. You might consider reading some books, dude, but I guess if you throw around thoughts of nuking one religion's holy land like pennies, you probably only need one.
But back to the issue at hand, I did mention my interest in providing the pReNC crowd with a list of names of people from the community who do not want masked people coming here causing damage.
»» Submitted by»»»bretton at 12:40 AM on September 1
What is it that the protesters are supposedly protesting again?
Duh -- robots.
»» Submitted by»»»chuck at 12:50 AM on September 1
You might consider reading some books, dude,
There's your problem. You obviously haven't read Milt Friedman.
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 1:13 AM on September 2
From all I've heard: I think Marsh's account is probably dead-on. Hopefully, it'll give police and protesters a chance to learn a bit before the RNC.
And Chuck is also right: the more videotape the better. Police seemed very confident that they had the initial incident and the follow-up stuff on tape for their purposes. I think the citizen tape we got was quite revealing... more so than any witness blogs and follow-ups we're seeing now.
Marsh called it a game of "telephone" that happens among 400 bicyclists. No doubt. So the videotape gives us a glimpse of reality: as opposed to all the second guessing after the fact. By both sides.
»» Submitted by»»»jderusha at 1:10 AM on September 2
1) Why did the MPLS police used excessive force to control a crowd of bike riders in which the protesters had no intention to provoke violence as a respond?
2) Did politics played a role in the MPLS PD that prompted this event to occurred?
3) What was the exact charge in which MPLS PD arrested the bicyclist, which sparked the incident the first place?
4) If MPLS PD knew that "Critical Mass" was no threat to provoke violence in the city, historically, then how come so many police officers were dispatch to the scene in which this event was about to occurred in the first place?
»» Submitted by Big G at 1:09 AM on September 2
1) Why does anyone give a shit?
2) Does politics play a role in why anyone gives a rat's ass?
3) Does the bicyclist who sparked the "incident" have a hot ass?
4) If MPLS PD knew that CM was a group of phonies that think riding a bike is some noble act that transcends just basic transportation needs, why did they bother wasting their Mace?
»» Submitted by Bx at 1:55 AM on September 2
1) It isn't clear that everyone involved had the same intentions. CM people generally are peaceful, but there was the RNC Welcoming Committee staging pReNC too.
2) Probably not. If you've been paying attention to pReNC, you would have known that they are anti-police and would be joining up with CM many days in advance.
3) Hopefully we'll find out soon.
4) AFAIK there was a normal level of police until shitbag salad broke out.
Keep in mind that the police normally have "escorted" Critical Mass. In fact, many politicians and city figures have participated. R.T. Rybak even was in Critical Mass at least once.
Police don't strike out at people for no reason. Especially in front of a hundred people and cameras.
»» Submitted by»»»s4xton at 9:55 AM on September 2
This incident reminds me of a quickly forgotten news story from the 1990s: Mpls. police breaking up a protest (along Lake St., I think, east of Uptown) that involved flag-burning.
I think this is much ado about not much.
Sure, those out to protest the Republicans will resurface here during next year's national convention. But I doubt that law enforcement will have trouble staying on top of that situation. . . . especially with the group publicizing its plans via a website.
»» Submitted by Local-History Buff at 11:21 AM on September 2
you're all missing the point. the cops were just pissed because the riders taking up the rear weren't wearing spandex shorts.
»» Submitted by»»»s4xton at 1:27 PM on September 2
Not only was it not anything to do with pReNC, the State Patrol helicopter was spotted by several from the start or near the start of the ride. I know I witnessed the helicopter over downtown long before any of this happened. So, the cops were anticipating something, and probably anticipated a little too much into actually influencing this.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 2:18 PM on September 2
I heard all the sirens at my apartment on Friday evening. I was like, "Shit, I hope another bridge didn't fall down."
»» Submitted by Christine at 7:12 PM on September 2
s4xton... yes, after reading posts like these and other accounts, the Minneapolis Police are coming out looking really bad.
I'm also thinking I was too harsh in criticizing anyone with a face mask. I still think it labels you a potential troublemaker - but it's not a bad idea to carry some sort of face/eye protection. You never know when you'll get indiscriminately pepper sprayed! Riding your bike, Geek Prom...
I don't think a cop will hit you with pepper spray while your going to lunch, Chuck. That would be indiscriminate. But when you gather in a large group and taunt them, or run around naked you might expect some police action.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:03 AM on September 3
Looks like CM's routine event got hijacked by anarchists looking for a warm-up for next year's anticipated confrontations during the Republican National Convention.
In that the anarchists posted online their itinerary for this holiday weekend, I see no reason for the surprise and outrage over there being a law-enforcement helicopter overhead before any disturbance began. I imagine law enforcement also welcomes having this warm-up, for useful practice.
»» Submitted by ordinary citizen at 9:26 AM on September 3
I also think that police are always going to turn out looking bad when they take action against a large group of people armed with blogs and flickr pages and youtube accounts. This is one of the problems, I think, with relying too much on first person accounts of those who see themselves as "wronged."
The collective online information is going to be almost exclusively one-sided. Marsh described the group as engaging in a giant game of "telephone" where misinformation spread like wildfire. I think that's happening on the internet now.
Too bad police officers can't go online and share their first person accounts, as the legal cases have to work their way through the system.
»» Submitted by»»»jderusha at 9:59 AM on September 3
Everyday citizens and taxpayers will always side with the cops when dealing with hooligans. That's all that matters. People are so used to the usual suspects crying "police brutality" that the normalized response has become collective eye-rolling.
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 10:09 AM on September 3
Fact based citizen journalism would in fact be a good thing. I think you'll find that the game of "telephone" has been used successfully on both sides of the political spectrum in galvanizing their constituents.
On the right you've got the conservative Christian base and talk radio fans only so eager to parrot their leadership (e.g. Rush, Rove, and Olsteen).
On the left you've got labor unions and a great many so-called "cause organizations" only so interested in showing strength in numbers by getting their people to sign-off on petitions which the signees have no idea what they're voting for.
»» Submitted by»»»aeklund at 10:38 AM on September 3
Bloggers are not the only ones who have power after a situation. Cops can also proactively release video evidence and make statements to the media, as they often do. And anything the MPD does carries more weight than a single blogger. If the cops selectively released squad car video of a few short clips where it might appear that it's a riot, the public is going to believe them. I don't feel wronged, as I wasn't a participant of Critical Mass. I'm just a pissed off witness.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 11:39 AM on September 3
I noticed in one of the videos that the bike mob was none too interseted in yeilding to police cars with lights and siren going. I wonder what CM's spin would have been had the siren been from an ambulance trying to get a cyclist with a closed-head injury to HCMC.
CM was griping that there aren't enough public resources dedicated to bikes in Minnesota? Isn't that like bitching about the lack of Catholic churches in Rome? Just look at the bike projects Oberstar has siphoned off federal highway (bridge, anyone?) taxes.
Nice going, CM; way to move the ball down field. You want to get the public on board? Try getting bicyclists to obey traffic lights and stop signs. How about helping them get over the Jekyll and Hyde-like "I'm a motorist, now I'm a pedestrian, now I'm a motorist, whoops, now I'm a pedesrian" beahvior that's so much fun to cope with when you're trying to operate a car safely.
»» Submitted by OctaneBoy at 12:11 PM on September 3
I believe in bikes. I believe in mass transit. I don't believe in being delayed when I want or need to get somewhere via car.
This was straight-up protest. It's not about creating change. It's about saying "eff you" to the general population, most of whom want nothing more than to go about their daily lives unhindered.
Change gets created by dialogue. "Look at me, I'm more riteous than you!" is not dialogue.
Wildy unproductive, this kinda thing is.
»» Submitted by Don't (bicycle) tread on me at 1:23 PM on September 3
I've been getting loads of yuks out of that pReNC website. Anarchists my ass. These people are leftists, pure and simple.
No real anarchist is concerned about "sustainability," or "mutual aid," or "solidarity." Ha ha. What wannabes.
They're about as much into anti-establishmentism as the girl scouts are.
Here's some of their published "beliefs." heh
1. A rejection of Capitalism, Imperialism, and the State;
Well, excuse me, but ... If you don't don't make money in the marketplace, and you don't live off the government, how do you pay the rent?? The trust fund?? Must be it.
Here's another laugher:
4. Work to end all relationships of domination and subjugation, including but not limited to those rooted in patriarchy, race, class, and homophobia;
uh, why isn't matriarchy included in that list?? Don't want to piss off Mom? Granted, it says "not limited to," but that's only because you were in a hurry and you couldn't think of anything else on short notice. More evidence that you're not really anarchists, because as we all know, it's Mom who really wields all the authority in this society, not Dad.
And they had the brilliance to actually publish their physical address. Cool. I'll bet they get plenty of visitors in the coming months.
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 3:06 PM on September 3
I know, Maz. It is annoying when the only thing people have to contribute is disruptive, unthinking political jargon and pissy jabs at political bogeymen.
Oh, snap.
»» Submitted by»»»msparber at 3:28 PM on September 3
It's a good thing you included that "oh snap" thing at the end because I never would have imagined that you were inferring that I was somehow guilty of such behavior. I only bring enlightenment and good cheer!
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 3:33 PM on September 3
Hear hear, Maz!
»» Submitted by Bx at 4:19 PM on September 3
As if I needed to say, I don't support violence and this looks like someone dressed in the same was as pReNC members. Totally not cool.
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 6:09 PM on September 3
To the douchebag so bravely concealing his identity in Kedster's above photo: What time do you have to get mommy's bike back in the garage?
»» Submitted by OctaneBoy at 8:02 PM on September 3
WCCO and KSTP both had great stories tonight at 6pm, and KARE had a great story Saturday evening. KSTP is doing another story tonight at 10, and they interviewed someone who was in jail.
»» Submitted by mnasi at 8:26 PM on September 3
If you go out and read lots of local blogs and logs and commentary from yesterday, it's interesting how so many posters and commenters, previously unknown on those sites, popped up just about everywhere, sharing their "disinterested, yet concerned" take about how it looks like the police really badly abused a group of peaceable riders and then somehow got the public media spin going their way, and then these new voices sort of confidentially told us all of some "really disturbing" information that could be found at some direct-witness sites and gave us links - to a few blog posts and comments written by some new names - whose syntax and grammer and ideological-word-choices sounded SO similar to the new voice sharing the riches of his digging . . .
It almost seemed as if there was a rehearsal going on for the hearts-and-minds operation for some upcoming political event. So, now I'm trying to figure out what could be coming up HERE that could be so important to them . . .
»» Submitted by»»» bobby_b at 11:24 PM on September 3
Well, it is a good idea not to uncritically believe any one source. We have a multifaceted puzzle of what happened, including that photo of a masked biker and various citizen video clips. We have to triangulate and form an opinion. And ask, "Who do I trust?"
I certainly plan to be at the next CM, which will probably go down without incident.
The Rat: I've read accounts of a pedestrian (citizen journalist) documenting the CM/police action from the sidewalk, getting pushed down and pepper sprayed by the po-po. Fact or fiction, I don't know - but journalists of any stripe are often in as much danger as those they document. This, it's not at all far-fetched for a citizen journalist to take precautions.
The difference, chuck, is that as a journalist (of the non-citizen variety), I've been pepper sprayed before. But that wasn't the story. What happened during the riot I was covering was the story.
I think in a lot of these first-person witness reports, people are turning what happened right in front of their eyes into the entire story. You get a slice of what happened, but nothing close to the whole picture.
Not that my story was necessarily complete on Friday night: I reported what we knew 3 hours after the incident. But at least a professional journalist makes the effort to paint a broader slice as to what happens.
Not that citizen journalists can't do this. I'm just not really seeing it. The best first-person account (in my opinion) came from Steve Marsh: a professional journalist.
»» Submitted by»»»jderusha at 9:22 AM on September 4
Marsh is a professional leftist.
»» Submitted by bud jr at 10:21 AM on September 4
You've never met Steve Marrsh, have you, bud?
»» Submitted by»»»msparber at 10:24 AM on September 4
Trolls like bud jr and Dennis Tester don't willingly meet people that don't agree with them. Safer to be a fucking moron behind a keyboard.
»» Submitted by»»»s4xton at 10:54 AM on September 4
Safer to be a fucking moron behind a keyboard.
It's good you're able to speak from experience.
»» Submitted by Seela at 11:03 AM on September 4
Marsh is a professional leftist.
not sure which is further off the mark...calling him a leftist or calling him professional. bud is so wrong that he might be right.
»» Submitted by grote at 11:15 AM on September 4
Sort of reminds me of 'targeting civilians' to make a political point. purposely impeding traffic is illegal.
»» Submitted by baker. at 11:21 AM on September 4
Thanks, Jason. Thanks, Bud. Fuck you, Scrote.
Let me just say this, Chuck. Sure, a handkerchief over your face is good protection from mace. But on the July ride, I didn't see anybody wearing any handkerchiefs, possibly because nobody was expecting to be maced. CM and the MPD have had smaller run-ins in the past, but by all accounts of everybody that I talked to during the 8/31 ride, nothing like this before. I think this is a case of two groups of people that were transformed first by internet hype and second by exhilarated circumstance into clashing mobs. And yes, to paraphrase A.I., we're talkin' about practice/ Aside from the RNC soldiers, from my vantage point, most of the people on bicycles didn't realize what was going on--they were just gawking at all the flashing lights and cops materializing--until the mace came out, and then it was a mildly panicked scramble to the greenway with some of them calling their friends on the celly to exclaim, "Yeah, I was just fucking MACED. By COPS. In THE FACE. Uh-huh. Yeah, seriously. In the face."
»» Submitted by stevemarsh at 11:20 AM on September 4
Agreeing with Jason, I think Steve Marsh's accounts about the CM episode have been very good.
And I say that in spite of my opinion (siding with grote here) that Marsh is usually an obnoxious grandstander and shameless self-promoter who delights in choosing confrontation and unpleasantness over cooperation and showing respect for others.
»» Submitted by ordinary citizen at 11:51 AM on September 4
Marsh is usually an obnoxious grandstander and shameless self-promoter who delights in choosing confrontation and unpleasantness over cooperation and showing respect for others.
you say that as if those are bad things.
»» Submitted by grote at 11:57 AM on September 4
I think those things got Shelby an Emmy, didn't it?
»» Submitted by»»» mazasapa at 12:06 PM on September 4
Seriously, O.C., you might appreciate the relativistic Al Jazeera/CNN/New Yorker/MPR/GroupHug approach to the news but I'm more of a battle rap guy. I'm a competitive male gorilla...a strutting peacock of a writer with a deep, loud voice...I'm King Kong. What can I say? I stick out a little here in Sweetland. It doesn't matter. You can wear flowers in your hair and listen to The Kingston Trio and check out StephenHero when nobody is looking.
»» Submitted by stevemarsh at 12:33 PM on September 4
If lovin' Marsh is wrong, I wanna be right....
»» Submitted by bud jr at 3:32 PM on September 4
DeRusha: I'm saying we need both the professional journalist, striving for objectivity (and usually downplaying his/her own experience) - and the first person witnesses, all those narrower slices of what happened that aren't watered down or striving for objectivity.
Just issued: this is part of a press release from Police Chief Tim Dolan: "The officers reports detail each arrest and the specifics regarding those physical confrontations. It appears that most of the actions of the officers were justified and reported appropriately. However, there are some actions that officers involved reported themselves that give me some concern. We also have to investigate all allegations by citizens. I have asked the City Civil Rights Department and three of my units to assist with reviewing this incident."
»» Submitted by»»»jderusha at 4:09 PM on September 4
. . . we need both the professional journalist, striving for objectivity (and usually downplaying his/her own experience) - and the first person witnesses, all those narrower slices of what happened that aren't watered down or striving for objectivity.
In cases like this, I share the enthusiasm for citizen-journalism to some extent, but with these reservations:
. . . bloggers commonly tend to sensationalize things, from them being overly excitable and/or eager to boost traffic to their site.
. . . bloggers typically mix in too much of their own personal interpretations and analysis of events -- often based mainly on speculation, rather than solid info -- in their eagerness to be the first ones out there commenting on events.
. . . bloggers commonly are speaking from a particular advocacy point-of-view, but often without clearly disclosing that.
. . . most bloggers don't have journalism training in things like safeguarding against bias, avoiding unfairly loaded language, and not commiting libel.
I sympathize with journalists in Jason's situation; I would hate to have to, on top of everything else, try to keep track of what sensationalized concerns are getting whipped up in the blogosphere.
»» Submitted by ordinary citizen at 4:19 PM on September 4
I saw Chief Dolan's news release this morning and it was about what was expected. I look forward to future releases. The public information section of the police report states, "Traffic officers followed the extremely large group of bicyclists and an undercover detail from ISAC (MPD's Information Sharing and Analysis Center), RAMSEY COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, and the STATE PATROL helicopter also monitored the protest ride."
I can't post the full details of the police report, but it's public information and available from Minneapolis City Hall.
The word monitored implies to me that these agencies were present from the very beginning. Does this mean this was simply a practice round for RNC? Do they call in the Ramsey County Sheriff's Department (not even the same county!) to every Critical Mass?
»» Submitted by»»»Kedster at 6:04 PM on September 4
Bikes belong on bike-paths. If they are in the street, they need to both keep
up with traffic and obey all traffic laws. If they have a problem with that,
then I have no problem with the MPLS police using water cannon on them.
Discourteous, negligent, arrogant bikers are a traffic menace. The roads
are primarily for cars and trucks. Cars and trucks pay for them.
»» Submitted by DL at 7:56 PM on September 4
OC: Replace "bloggers" with "ordinary citizens." :-)
Nevertheless, there is a more professional level of citizen journalism emerging between the ranty blogger and the trained journalist. For example, there's not a lot of difference between what I've edited for ABCnews.com and Rocketboom.com, except the Rocketboom pieces are looser and quirkier.
»» Submitted by»»»chuck at 10:53 PM on September 4
. . . OC: Replace "bloggers" with "ordinary citizens." :-)
Chuck, I'm afraid I'm going to respectfully disagree about that.
I am not a blogger, but this year I have been exploring the local blogosphere quite a bit.
My strong sense is that most bloggers are more easily triggered into an excited state than is true of the general population. . . and, again compared to the general population, they're way more inclined to be hyper-expressive types who've got very strong urges to immediately say whatever's on their mind, whether or not they've thought it through very well.
Bloggers typically want their sites to attract lots of traffic. I have yet to come across a site that has high traffic and comments from visitiors along this line: "Keep up the great work! I frequent your blog because you take a slow, measured, approach, posting new material only when you're confident it's good enough, and not writing anything when you probably don't know enough about what you would be commenting on."
. . . . there is a more professional level of citizen journalism emerging between the ranty blogger and the trained journalist.
I believe you, and I'm in favor of it.
A comparable well-established example of that sort of thing is citizens trained and certified to be credible severe-weather spotters/reporters.
In that example, you get the benefit of lots more eyes and ears, from the ranks of the general public, but you also assure pretty good quality-control. Something along those lines ought to be looked into with citizen-journalism. Any hobby or volunteering activity that's lacking agreed-upon standards about quality, best-practices, ethical conduct, etc., won't get taken very seriously.
»» Submitted by ordinary citizen at 11:35 PM on September 4
"Professional journalism" is the language's deepest font of generic sensationalism and overheated prose. It's been that way for at least 100 years. Television "writing" has exacerbated it. Blogs regurgitate it. And the more recent p.c., faux-objectivist, gender-neutral, agreed-upon-standard is a fashion trend that's improbably maintained journalism's sensationalized tone while rendering it less interesting. Who will be our Ramones?
»» Submitted by stevemarsh at 12:15 AM on September 4
Who will be our Ramones?
Joe Mauer?
»» Submitted by Carl's Pole-Lad at 12:34 AM on September 4
Yes, the blogosphere is totally ranty. Not to be confused with Ranty, who I understand is some sort of Nordeast real estate vixen.
Best practices are emerging for citizen journalism (that may be the most boring thing I've ever written). I'm going to a CJ conference next month with a bunch of people way smarter than me to figure out what those best practices are. Then we can hopefully apply that to The Uptake.
The Ramones of journalism -- isn't that Stewart/Colbert?
"Bikes belong on bike-paths. If they are in the street, they need to both keep up with traffic"
Newsflash: Bikes are not as fast as cars. And bike paths go around lakes. They don't take you to places you need to go (usually).
Guess what? Biking is the way some people transport themselves. Get used to it, and share the road.
»» Submitted by»»»she-she at 2:22 AM on September 5
If bikes are not as fast as cars, why are they given the same rights over the road (without having to pay for it, mind you)?
And if bike paths don't take you places you need to go, doesn't that make biking a poor method of transportation?
Or are we just anti-car.
»» Submitted by kevin is ready for bed at 7:09 AM on September 5
Stewart/Colbert=Weird Al. Maybe Tenacious D.
»» Submitted by stevemarsh at 1:20 PM on September 5
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
3 Trackbacks:
A green light means "go".: Listening To: Eye of the Tiger by Survivor Guess who just got her Wisconsin Drivers License changed over to Minnesota?! And only one year over the deadline! Who rules? I do, that's who! I don't know if most of you know this, ...
Rumble In Minneapolis: In one of those crazy stories where everyone seems to do the wrong thing, 19 people were arrested in Minneapolis this weekend at a Critical Mass event gone awry. Most interesting to me is the interplay of threads on MNspeak and ...
Critical Mass police confrontation: From YouTube user adepter: "august 31 2007 cops tackling girl doing nothing but riding on bike and cop spraying unarmed non-violent bystanders". Here's another video and more links/discussion at MNspeak. Steve Marsh has a great account ...
